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Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners

#26
Doh! Yeah, it's so easy to forget about learning Kana. I'll add that.
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#27
Ok, since I'm back in the US (and will be in Japan next week if all goes well), I've been able to make a lot of changes.

I added hyperlinks. I updated the Tae Kim deck in Anki to include Clozed Deleted testing.

What I need to do later is create a new Core 2000 and Core 6000 deck for Anki. It'll be set so items will appear in sorted order. The description will also give links to the audio/image files. Plus verbs in the first 400 words will have a cloze delete card.
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#28
Thanks Nukemarine, this looks really helpful.

I've been going through RTK1 at a fairly slow pace - was around frame 200 or so after a couple months, and was starting to get frustrated with not learning any readings. I've studied Japanese for a few years casually, so I know a decent amount of vocab too - but it's irritating not being able to use kanji for it.

I'll give your pathway a go and start off with the first 555 kanji + Tae Kim, and let you know how it works out for me.
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#29
Ok, I posted an Anki deck called "Core 2k/6k Japanese Vocabulary - Beginner" that includes the Clozed Delete.

For the audio, you have to download:
Vocabulary Audio
Sentence Audio

I don't know where's the link for the images (is "munged" the term?), and I'm not able to post the ones I have onto mediafire. If someone has a link for munged(?) images, post it here and I'll put it on the top post.
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#30
Nukemarine Wrote:Ok, I posted an Anki deck called "Core 2k/6k Japanese Vocabulary - Beginner" that includes the Clozed Delete.

For the audio, you have to download:
Vocabulary Audio
Sentence Audio

I don't know where's the link for the images (is "munged" the term?), and I'm not able to post the ones I have onto mediafire. If someone has a link for munged(?) images, post it here and I'll put it on the top post.
Apparently that word refers to some kind of pro-human vision/computer vision-thwarting tactic? Sort of like captchas? Or the useful twist of re-captchas, where the crowdsourced information is used to enhance OCRing of books or somesuch. Kind of the opposite of my computer vision-friendly steganographic links in an unrelated, totally innocent thread, which also features a useful twist once human vision is reintroduced (admittedly compromising the 'security through obscurity'). I will call my inversion... Gunnming?
Edited: 2010-03-10, 8:38 pm
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#31
ruiner Wrote:
Quote:I don't know where's the link for the images (is "munged" the term?), and I'm not able to post the ones I have onto mediafire. If someone has a link for munged(?) images, post it here and I'll put it on the top post.
Apparently that word refers to some kind of pro-human vision/computer vision-thwarting tactic? Sort of like captchas? Or the useful twist of re-captchas, where the crowdsourced information is used to enhance OCRing of books or somesuch. Kind of the opposite of my computer vision-friendly steganographic links in an unrelated, totally innocent thread, which also features a useful twist once human vision is reintroduced (admittedly compromising the 'security through obscurity'). I will call my inversion... Gunnming?
You mean 'munged'? 'Munge' comes from MUNG, which is a recursive acronym meaning 'mung until no good'. Munge isn't quite so terrible and doesn't have destructive results... It just means to process it in some way.
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#32
wccrawford Wrote:
ruiner Wrote:
Quote:I don't know where's the link for the images (is "munged" the term?), and I'm not able to post the ones I have onto mediafire. If someone has a link for munged(?) images, post it here and I'll put it on the top post.
Apparently that word refers to some kind of pro-human vision/computer vision-thwarting tactic? Sort of like captchas? Or the useful twist of re-captchas, where the crowdsourced information is used to enhance OCRing of books or somesuch. Kind of the opposite of my computer vision-friendly steganographic links in an unrelated, totally innocent thread, which also features a useful twist once human vision is reintroduced (admittedly compromising the 'security through obscurity'). I will call my inversion... Gunnming?
You mean 'munged'? 'Munge' comes from MUNG, which is a recursive acronym meaning 'mung until no good'. Munge isn't quite so terrible and doesn't have destructive results... It just means to process it in some way.
Yep, gunnming, that's what I'll call my link method.
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#33
Nukemarine Wrote:Ok, I posted an Anki deck called "Core 2k/6k Japanese Vocabulary - Beginner" that includes the Clozed Delete.

For the audio, you have to download:
Vocabulary Audio
Sentence Audio

I don't know where's the link for the images (is "munged" the term?), and I'm not able to post the ones I have onto mediafire. If someone has a link for munged(?) images, post it here and I'll put it on the top post.
OK, I've just restarted learning Japanese, starting with RTK first. I decided to mess with Anki for the first time, and downloaded some of the decks mentioned in the first post, and the one mentioned here. The other ones had audio, so I had no problems with that. Here, you have the audio separate. I downloaded it, but how do I...import it into the deck? Sorry, I've never used Anki before and I'm still a bit lost
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#34
It's my first post here and I want to thank the community for all the great things they are doing. And thanks to Nukemarine too for his help, and his beginner guide which I'm going to follow the most seriously I can.

Anyway, have you solved the problem of the images missing link ? Where can we download the image package ?

Thanks! bye
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#35
Thanks for the information. I wanted to start using sorted Kore and discard my old Smart.FM 2,000 list. However, I want it in the same format as how it imports to Anki. So frontside is the sentence, backside is the audio, sentence with furigana, the entire sentence definition, then single-word definitions. I'm not sure how to set-up the import to do this successfully.
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#36
Just import the deck normally, then go to settings->deck properties->edit->card templates, there you can move stuff around from question to answer side and the other way around.
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#37
Just wondering: how exactly does one study RTK and the core2K Beginner Vocab simultaneously? Even within the first 20 words in Core, there are kanji that I don't really know the stroke order of, so I had to go into 2001KO just to look it up. Also, I...don't really get how I'm supposed to learn the words. Since it's dictation, I'm assuming that means I try to go from kana to kanji, and from kanji to English word?
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#38
Do RTK Lite first (First 555 of the 2k1KO Kanji in RTK order). The steps are not meant to be done simultaneously. They're broken into smaller segments so your progress is smoother in all areas which is beneficial to slower learners such as myself.

For studying, I suggest kana to kanji in that the Kana word and sentence is shown. However, you should still understand what the word means. That's doesn't mean "translate" it but just understand what it's conveying.

As for kanji, the lists follow the KO order but if you did RTK Lite first, you shouldn't run into too many unknown kanji. In the beginner, there'll be about 70 sentences with kanji either in Book 2 or Book 3 of 2k1KO but those are at the end.

If this presents a problem, its no sweat to suspend those sentences till later such as after you do the rest of RTK Lite (556-1110 kanji of 2k1KO) in the Basic portion.
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#39
Oh, I was doing regular RTK, not RTK Lite. That's probably why. Thanks, I'll try that out!
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#40
I very much appreciate this organized post Nukemarine! I've been feeling lost with a good way to organize my vocab learning and this seems perfect.

I saw you put the first 3 decks onto the Anki server, but the Core6k decks are not there. I'm not entirely sure how to import from a spreadsheet. To be honest it seems like everyone on this forum knows about 100x more about the technicalities of the Anki program than I do.

Are they few simple steps I can follow to successfully import the core6k spreadsheets into Anki so they are essentially organized in the same way the core2k decks you uploaded are organized? -- since they are organized so well Smile

Thank you again!
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#41
Ok, I uploaded the Intermediate lists under title: "Core 2k/6k Japanese Vocabulary - Intermediate"

Like it says in the description, avoid downloading these until you've at least studied all items from the previous list. This'll keep the number of facts on your list you'll have to sync on the server to a minimum.

Also, these do not have the verbs clozed deleted cards. It's not difficult to do if you liked the format in the earlier decks.
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#42
Should this post be sticky? Ow yeaHH1
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#43
First,I would like to thanks Nukemarine for this amazing list, it really helped me to build a study program that has some kind of sense.

But , I have some trouble with the Tae Kims's Deck, the sound for cards just doesn't work, I have changed the files name many time and played a bit with the .media file like I did for the Core 2k deck when I downloaded the sound file ( which work very well) but it sill didn't work. I could put the sound manually on every card but I'm sure that I'm doing something wrong somewhere.

Some kind of guidance would be really appreciated.

Again, thank you for the time you spend on helping beginner, I really appreciate it.
Edited: 2010-04-09, 12:11 pm
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#44
Truth be told, you don't need audio for the Tae Kim deck. That was a hold over from when the Text to Speech program was popular in the few months before iKnow and Subs2srs. At that time, it was the best of a bad situation (no native audio).

Now, if native speakers ever got together and created audio files for the sentences then that would be cool. But until then, don't worry about it.
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#45
If you can please explain how to create the RTK deck for this course plan you have laid out for us, or provide said deck, i would appreciate it very much.

I have found an RTK Lite deck on Anki, but the one you describe sounds like it is sorted differently and with different cards suspended to better compliment being studied alongside 2001KO.

I greatly appreciate the rest of your guide and look forward to trying out the course outlined once i can obtain an RTK deck that will work smoothly with it.
Edited: 2010-04-09, 9:04 pm
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#46
Thank you for uploading the core6k decks Nukemarine! I agree this guide should be stickied Wink
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#47
superliman Wrote:To be honest it seems like everyone on this forum knows about 100x more about the technicalities of the Anki program than I do.
This was also a problem for me when I first began frequenting this forum, and is still a problem to some degree. Sure, it took me a while to adjust to all the terms and acronyms that are commonly used here (e.g. Core2K, KO2001, etc), but Anki has definitely been the bigger time-sink.

The initial setup of Anki is simply frustrating if you're importing a deck, especially if it has media, and the poorly organized forum on the Anki website is intimidating and adds to the initial frustration. Although I applaud the sheer amount of effort Damien (Anki's creator) has invested into the program, it fails to live up to its motto of "friendly, intelligent flashcards."

(On a related note: in its present state, with Anki as its forefront, SRS will continue to only appeal to a niche market. A major overhaul of the user interfaces of SRS programs will have to take place before new markets will open.)

People on this forum instruct others to "download the spreadsheet and import it into Anki" like it's a simply one-step procedure. Yet, you have to mess around with templates and fields until all the cards are setup the way you'd like. I can't imagine what Anki must be like for the average person who is used to programs like iTunes.

Although Fabrice seems against it, a sticky on how to import Anki spreadsheets would be helpful, especially since the tutorials on the Anki website do not address the issue. Sure, the information is probably available somewhere on this forum or on the Anki forum, but a centralized location would prevent many headaches.

Anyway, I'm sorry to draw away attention from the great resources Nukemarine has provided in this thread, which I agree deserve to be stickied.
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#48
With everything you can/need/want to do with an SRS, Anki is pretty user-friendly, if you ask me. It's hard to have a program with so many features and still have an iTunes-like interface.

I admit when it comes to card-models and such (ie. all that Front: %(Sentence)s, Back: %(Reading)s) could probably use some sort of GUI update, but I don't think it's that difficult.

As for importing spreadsheets, a simple tutorial would say:
1. Create New Deck
2. Look at spreadsheet, each column is a "field," so make a Card Model with all those fields
3. Go to "Import," Select spreadsheet. Set up the "fields" to align correctly (ie. Sentence -> Sentence, instead of Sentence -> Audio. Should be simple)
4. Study.

The only confusing parts are steps 2 and 3, but if you've done it once, it should become a lot easier.
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#49
hotsw4p Wrote:If you can please explain how to create the RTK deck for this course plan you have laid out for us, or provide said deck, i would appreciate it very much.

I have found an RTK Lite deck on Anki, but the one you describe sounds like it is sorted differently and with different cards suspended to better compliment being studied alongside 2001KO.

I greatly appreciate the rest of your guide and look forward to trying out the course outlined once i can obtain an RTK deck that will work smoothly with it.
Here's what I can do: I have an RTK deck on Anki download. I'll edit it to add items for 2001KO Number, Kanken Number, and JLPT (if I have it).

What you as the user have to do then is sort by the number you want (ie 2001KO) suspend all but the level you're at (ie 2001KO numbers 1 thru 555). In addition, as you're learning in RTK Order, you may need to un-suspend other cards that act as primitives. Now, this is not mandatory but it can help. This is easy to do if you're using RTK book (you do have the book right?) and un-suspend kanji that have notes as also being a primitive.
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#50
i spent a lot of time today with Anki and feel comfortable now with importing a deck from a spreadsheet. I understand now what you are describing, especially after your most recent post describing the KO groupings.

I have already created a deck using the spreadsheet you linked on the first post, and sorted it by 2001KO id. I then tagged the cards that had KO id's with a "KO" tag, and created 3 groupings of the "KO" tagged cards based on the KO id ("KOGroup1"=1-555, "KOGroup2"=556-1110, "KOGroup3"=1111-*). After that, i filtered the Anki deck by the grouping (i.e. tag:KOGroup1 in the deck browser) and sorted it by RTK id, so that i could see what all cards i have not yet created stories for.

At this point, my game plan is to tackle all of the cards in KOGroup1 that i do not have stories for (300 in total) and then proceed following your outline.

In summary, the main part i was having trouble understanding was that once i filtered out the non-KO cards, i still needed to group the remaining cards by the KO group according to their KO-id's, and THENNNNN follow the RTK ordering, un-suspending primitive kanji when needed.

All the pieces of the puzzle connect for me now, and i am really excited to begin Smile Thank you for all your help nukemarine, i look forward to a fresher, deeper, and more diverse studying routine thanks to you!
Edited: 2010-04-10, 12:56 am
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