Back

The "What's this word/phrase?" thread

(2017-10-15, 10:22 pm)learningkanji Wrote: I was talking to a Japanese friend when they showed me this sentence: You shouldn't have to beg someone to care.

I tried translating it to Japanese but it was pretty difficult. You shouldn't have to was the hardest part. This was the best I could do:

誰かに気にしてもらうのを頼むのは要らないべきだ

Does anyone know how to translate that?

Perhaps use "hazunai" to express something not being as it is supposed to be? Which is fairly close to "you shouldn't have to". (My IME conked out, so no hiragana at the moment...)
Reply
I also think はず is more approriate in that case.
べき is more about telling people what is right to do and what's not, what must or must not be done.
That sentence is just saying that something is not expected to be done, that's not normal to happen.

I would translate it more like that:
構ってほしいのならお願いするはずがない。

気にする also works but I feel like 構う has a more affectionate meaning.
~てもらいたい instead of ~てほしい is also an option.
Reply
Too busy to write much, but I thought I might post what Eijiro translates "shouldn't have to" as:

Shouldn't have to
〜しなきゃいけないなんておかしい◆【直訳】〜しなければならないという状況があるべきではない
・Your husband shouldn't have to carry the washing to the laundry before going to work. ご主人が仕事前に洗濯物をクリーニング屋に持って行かなきゃいけないなんておかしいわ。
Reply
Thanksgiving Sale: 30% OFF Basic, Premium & Premium PLUS Subscriptions! (Nov 13 - 22)
JapanesePod101
Maybe another possible alternative base on what was said above:
~したら普通じゃない
Reply
Hi, new to this forum but not to koohii.com. Anyway, a while ago I got a character book for a manga as a present, and I started reading through the different profiles and snippets of text, despite my limited vocabulary and grammar knowledge... It's slow, but I usually manage to figure things out, and learn more. Until now. This part just makes my head hurt and I don't even know how to unravel it.  Huh Can anyone here just help me with telling me what it means in English, and I'll try to figure out what I'm missing and attack those holes in my knowledge. Thanks!  Smile

大原野は見た目と物静かさがウケてるため、彼のことをなにも知らない 話したこともない子にモテる(知ってる人はあまり寄り付かない)。
Reply
Some hints for unravelling the grammar:
彼のことをなにも知らない 話したこともない all modifies 子.
見た目と物静かさがウケてる is all a subordinate clause under ため, indicating the reason for the main sentence (大原野は...X子にモテる)
ウケてる I had to look up, but it is from this sense of ウケる: "(11) (uk) (esp. ウケる, うける) to be well-received; to become popular; to go down well"
Reply
(2017-11-09, 3:52 pm)pm215 Wrote: Some hints for unravelling the grammar:
彼のことをなにも知らない 話したこともない all modifies 子.
見た目と物静かさがウケてる is all a subordinate clause under ため, indicating the reason for the main sentence (大原野は...X子にモテる)
ウケてる I had to look up, but it is from this sense of ウケる: "(11) (uk) (esp. ウケる, うける) to be well-received; to become popular; to go down well"

Thank you for the kind reply! I guess I'll have to set he book aside for a while though, while diving into subordinate clauses. Tongue Also, thanks for pointing out just how much is modifying 子. I didn't realize that.
Reply
Thanks for clearing up shouldn't have to. Sometimes I come across sentences where より is at the beginning of a sentence and I'm not too sure what it means. I see it quite often but the only example I can remember is:

より多くステージに立つのは

Also I see stuff like something...じゃねい like:

指すんじゃねい

Which I can figure out that means don't point but じゃねい means じゃない so 指すんじゃねい is 指すんじゃない which means it's not that I will point? So why does something...じゃねい mean something...ないで like 指さわないで?
Reply
When a sentence starts with より it usually means more than now, or more than up to a point. Just imagine an 今 before it and it makes sense. I is usually used quantitatively (going on even more stages, in your case).

じゃねぇー is a slangy way to say じゃない in my area. I haven't seen it spelled like that yet but I can see it happening Smile
Reply
(2017-11-10, 9:54 pm)learningkanji Wrote: Thanks for clearing up shouldn't have to. Sometimes I come across sentences where より is at the beginning of a sentence and I'm not too sure what it means. I see it quite often but the only example I can remember is:

より多くステージに立つのは
It doesn't have to be at the start of the sentences, but より without something to compare with is just like 'more...' in English without a 'than...' explicitly saying what you're comparing with. It's less common than doing that in English so over using it can sound like translationese, but its not that uncommon.

より安全な社会の構築が復興のカギ constructing a safer society is the key to revival (Google search)
どっちがより変態なのか調べてみた we investigated who was the more perverted (Youtube search)
国際社会の連帯をより強固なものとするため in order to make the bonds of international society stronger (Abe speech)
どっちがよりクリーチャーを作れるか who can make more creatures (Google search) (no adj or adv!)

Quote:Also I see stuff like something...じゃねい like:

指すんじゃねい

Which I can figure out that means don't point but じゃねい means じゃない so 指すんじゃねい is 指すんじゃない which means it's not that I will point? So why does something...じゃねい mean something...ないで like 指さわないで?
yeah it is slang for じゃない。like Zgarbas i can't remember the last time i saw it with that spelling. more common spelling include じゃねえ じゃねー じゃねぇ...

~するんじゃない can be a negative imperative like ~するな (not just "it's not that I will point")
that's just another construction you gotta learn.

https://youtu.be/vvepe04Dbh4?t=12s
another example is at the start of the video for this popular song at 0:12
さわんじゃねぇよ、おめぇ女かよ。(触るんじゃないよ、お前女かよ)Don't touch me! What are you, a girl?
Edited: 2017-11-11, 12:07 am
Reply
I see, I think I just spelled it wrong. Anyways thanks.
Reply
Using the helpful clues I got here about the grammar of this sentence that gave me such a headache, I think maybe I have some understanding of it?

大原野は見た目と物静かさがウケてるため、彼のことをなにも知らない 話したこともない子にモテる(知ってる人はあまり寄り付かない)。

Because [his] appearance and quietness is well-received/well-liked, Ooharano attracts girls who know nothing about him [and] haven't even talked [to him] (people who know [him] don't approach [him]).

Is that somewhere close to what it means?
Reply
@whisper

Include the あまり in some way and I think you've got it perfect
Edited: 2017-11-13, 7:01 pm by ファブリス
Reply
Thank you!  Smile (I really shouldn't try reading stuff more advanced than my level, but where's the fun in that? Got to keep myself motivated to learn more, right? Big Grin )
Edited: 2017-11-13, 7:02 pm by ファブリス
Reply
彼女は瞬きして涙止めようとした。

What is the purpose of, "と" in this sentence after, "止めよう"?  Is it referring to, "as soon as"? So, "As soon as she blinked, the tears stopped" ?

[quote pid='247953' dateline='1510600676']
Thank you!  Smile (I really shouldn't try reading stuff more advanced than my level, but where's the fun in that? Got to keep myself motivated to learn more, right? Big Grin )[/quote]

Lol I do the same thing
Edited: Yesterday, 11:29 pm
Reply
@cattastic

volitional form (~う、~よう)+とする = try/attempt to do something
彼女は瞬きして涙止めようとした。 (btw there's probably an を missing after 涙)
'She blinked and tried to stop her tears'

Couple more examples with する in different forms:

ドアが閉まっていて、全力で開けようとしてもビクともしない。
'The door is closed won't budge even when I try to open it with my full force.'

夫婦関係でも自分の正しさを主張し、相手を変えようとすれば、たとえ相手をうまく説得できたとしても、相手の中には我慢や反発が生まれ、互いへの信頼や安心感は壊れていきます。(出典:http://www.mag2.com/p/news/330557)
'In marriages too, if you assert your own correctness and try to change the other person, even if you manage to convince them, they will feel that they are having to put up with something or want to rebel against you, and your trust and feelings of reassurance in each other will start to crumble.'
Edited: Today, 5:13 am
Reply
(Today, 5:03 am)Ash_S Wrote: @cattastic

volitional form (~う、~よう)+とする = try/attempt to do something
彼女は瞬きして涙止めようとした。 (btw there's probably an を missing after 涙)
'She blinked and tried to stop her tears'

Couple more examples with する in different forms:

ドアが閉まっていて、全力で開けようとしてもビクともしない。
'The door is closed won't budge even when I try to open it with my full force.'

夫婦関係でも自分の正しさを主張し、相手を変えようとすれば、たとえ相手をうまく説得できたとしても、相手の中には我慢や反発が生まれ、互いへの信頼や安心感は壊れていきます。(出典:http://www.mag2.com/p/news/330557)
'In marriages too, if you assert your own correctness and try to change the other person, even if you manage to convince them, they will feel that they are having to put up with something or want to rebel against you, and your trust and feelings of reassurance in each other will start to crumble.'

Okay...wow. This is incredibly helpful. Thank you so much.

If there's an を missing after 涙, do you think it'd make a big difference? I put this sentence up on HiNative and 3 people rated it as natural. Or they were just being nice Angel lol

(2017-11-13, 2:17 pm)whisper Wrote: Thank you!  Smile (I really shouldn't try reading stuff more advanced than my level, but where's the fun in that? Got to keep myself motivated to learn more, right? Big Grin )

Aaand apparently I don't know how to quote. Anyways, yeah, I do this too. Tongue
Edited: 10 hours ago
Reply