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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread

(2017-08-04, 5:35 pm)tanaquil Wrote: agete confused me a little when I read your example as well, but my guess is that you're doing Tarou a favor by letting him try it. "yarasete ageru" = "I'll let you try it" (I'm doing you a favor); "yarasete agete kudasai" = "Please let him try it."

The yaru being used here is do, not give. I'm not sure if these are actually considered separate verbs, or just different meanings of the same verb, but yaru when it doesn't mean give doesn't imply anything about relative status. It only implies relative status when it's in sentences like "I'll give the dog food" or in a -te yaru combination. I think "yarasete kudasai" or "yarasete kuremasen ka" (let me take care of that) to a boss would be entirely appropriate.

Someone else might have a better answer, though. Even after reading Rubin's excellent explanation, I still fumble this often, especially in the more complex variations.

You may well be right about yaru not meaning "to give with little or no respect" here but simply "to do". Since Rubin chose to render the Japanese example sentence entirely in romaji, there's no way to tell if he means plain やる i.e. "to give" or 遣る i.e. "to do". (Edit: it turns out 遣る can both mean "to give to someone of equal or lower rank" or indeed simply "to do". Apparently this is one of those kanji that generally gets written in kana.) Still, two of the  other four examples Rubin provides on said page do provide some circumstantial evidence that plain やる is meant here. Specifically:

いたいめにあわせて やった= "I gave him the causing of meeting up with a painful experience"= "I kicked his butt."
かかせてやった = "I (showed him whose boss and) made him write it."

Both seem to use やる to underline the inferior position of the person undergoing the action. Rubin also remarks in general about his examples on page 59: "Notice that they suggest situations of dominance or familiarity."

Then again, maybe the sentence in question is more an example of familiarity than of dominance.

(Edit: in the section immediately folllowing the one I quoted from, Rubin also uses やる in the sense of "to do" when quoting an angry outburst towards a Sicilian innkeeper. Of course, why a Sicilian innkeeper would understand Japanese in the first place is the greater mystery in that section...  Confused )

(2017-08-04, 5:48 pm)phil321 Wrote: Maybe the following from another book will help:

-te ageru:  perform an action for the benefit of somebody else, e.g.:
 
Haha ni atarasii boosi o katte agemasita. I bought my mother a new hat.
 
Kutu o migaite agemasyoo ka. Shall I polish your shoes for you?
 
-te kureru:  perform an action for the benefit of the
 
speaker, or somebody that the speaker considers as in his
 
group, e.g.:
 
Eigo no zibiki o kasite kuremasita. He lent me an English dictionary.
 
Hi o tukete kuremasen ka. Won't you please set fire to it?

I'm aware of the -te ageru / -te kureru forms and how they indicate performing something for someone's benefit.

One of the problems I had with the sentence I quoted, is that it seemed to multiply the meaning of "allowing/letting someone (to) do something" by using both the causative in the te-form (which in itself is already a request to make someone do something) and an extra "to give" in the form of あげて and yet another request in the form of くださ. The solution that Tanaquil suggested seems to clear up the confusion, with やらせて no longer being based on やる (to give) but on 遣る (to do), since then やらせて would no longer include the meaning "to give" so that it might make sense to add this meaning with あげて.
Edited: 2017-08-05, 10:24 am
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Quote:Since Rubin chose to render the Japanese example sentence entirely in romaji, there's no way to tell if he means plain やる i.e. "to give" or 遣る i.e. "to do".
If he'd spoken the sentence out loud (as the hypothetical speaker of the example would be doing) then you wouldn't be able to tell from choice of written form either; and using kanji for やる in either sense is not common at all in my experience.

You can tell this isn't the "to give" sense because (1) it doesn't fit at all, short of perhaps contrived situations where you're asking "please let Tarou feed the ducks" or something and (2) やらせてあげる, やらせてくれる, etc etc are very common ways to say "let him", "let me", etc.
(You can see やる used in its 'give' meaning in sentences like this, where you can tell it's that because of the direct object:
私が幼い頃、近所の方が大きな壺を何個もお庭に置いて、メダカをたくさん飼っていて、エサをやらせてもらった事がありました。)

Of course Rubin is deliberately throwing you not-easy-to-comprehend sentences here; not that it's unnatural, but it's the kind of sentence that gives you no clues if you don't know the grammar and the common phrasings it's using.
Edited: 2017-08-05, 11:29 am
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Hi, can someone help me parse this sentence please? 

アンケーとをとろうかなあ

Using google translate I get "let's take a survey".

But what is the verb, and what is the ka and na for?  Thanks.
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(2017-08-19, 8:06 pm)phil321 Wrote: Hi, can someone help me parse this sentence please? 

アンケーとをとろうかなあ

Using google translate I get "let's take a survey".

But what is the verb, and what is the ka and na for?  Thanks.

かなあ (or any variation that makes you say the same thing かな~ かなぁ etc)is kind of like "I wonder if". If you listen to someone say it, it'll make more sense than trying to explain it. It doesn't neccesarily neccesitate an answer or just sounds a little softer than plain old か.

And the verb is 取る とる take
Edited: 2017-08-19, 8:22 pm
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(2017-08-19, 8:21 pm)sholum Wrote:
(2017-08-19, 8:06 pm)phil321 Wrote: Hi, can someone help me parse this sentence please? 

アンケーとをとろうかなあ

Using google translate I get "let's take a survey".

But what is the verb, and what is the ka and na for?  Thanks.

かなあ (or any variation that makes you say the same thing かな~ かなぁ etc)is kind of like "I wonder if". If you listen to someone say it, it'll make more sense than trying to explain it. It doesn't neccesarily neccesitate an answer or just sounds a little softer than plain old か.

And the verb is 取る とる take
Something's still missing though: the kana is actually (in romaji): o toro u ka na a. I don't think the verb is "toru". Maybe the word is "torou" = waste of time? Thanks. Or maybe just a typo in the textbook.
Edited: 2017-08-19, 8:33 pm
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"アンケート" is the direct object of a verb, so I agree with ”とる" as being the verb "to take". "取ろう" would be the volitional.
Edited: 2017-08-19, 9:00 pm
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"I'm wondering if I wanna answer a questionairre."
"I'm thinking about answering a questionairre."
"Not sure but I might answer a questionairre."
"I'm gonna answer a questionairre."

It's the verb 取る like he said. That's just the verb we use with アンケート. Like 'take a survey'.

Volitional form + かな(あ) basically expresses what you're thinking about doing.
Edited: 2017-08-19, 9:09 pm
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(2017-08-19, 9:08 pm)Ash_S Wrote: "I'm wondering if I wanna answer a questionairre."
"I'm thinking about answering a questionairre."
"Not sure but I might answer a questionairre."
"I'm gonna answer a questionairre."

It's the verb 取る like he said. That's just the verb we use with アンケート. Like 'take a survey'.

Volitional form + かな(あ) basically expresses what you're thinking about doing.

Ooooooohhhhhh [slapping forehead].  I see it now:

Anketto o toroo ka na a

where toroo is the "-OO" form of "toru".  (Torou = toroo).

Thanks all.
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It's never written -oo (or おお) though, so the '-OO form' is a bit of an odd way to think about it.

PS: アンケート is 'ankeito' or maybe 'ankeeto' or 'anke-to', not 'anketto' -- long vowel, not glottal stop. (If you were wondering what the heck this katakana word is derived from, it's one of the handful that trips up English speakers by being from a different Western language, in this case French enquête.)
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Quick question:  is "Tamaki" a boy's name or a girl's name, for a family name?  Thanks.
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(2017-08-25, 7:49 pm)phil321 Wrote: Quick question: is "Tamaki" a boy's name or a girl's name, for a family name?

Halpern's JapaNames iOS app says it's all three.
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(2017-08-25, 8:47 pm)fkb9g Wrote:
(2017-08-25, 7:49 pm)phil321 Wrote: Quick question: is "Tamaki" a boy's name or a girl's name, for a family name?

Halpern's JapaNames iOS app says it's all three.

Thanks!
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There are a couple of neat yojijukugo's that I like:

有限実行 yuugen jikko: you said you'd do it and you followed through
不言実行 fugen jikko: silent action/actions speak louder than words

Does anyone know of one that would translate to "you said you were going to do something and you didn't" or like an unfulfilled resolution?

Thanks in advance...
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(2017-09-03, 7:00 pm)Andy77 Wrote: There are a couple of neat yojijukugo's that I like:

有限実行 yuugen jikko: you said you'd do it and you followed through
不言実行 fugen jikko: silent action/actions speak louder than words

Does anyone know of one that would translate to "you said you were going to do something and you didn't" or like an unfulfilled resolution?

Thanks in advance...

Can I try making it up?  Here goes:  有言不行 yuugenfukko.
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(2017-09-03, 7:00 pm)Andy77 Wrote: 有限実行 yuugen jikko: you said you'd do it and you followed through
不言実行 fugen jikko: silent action/actions speak louder than words

Does anyone know of one that would translate to "you said you were going to do something and you didn't" or like an unfulfilled resolution?

有限実行 should be 有言実行.

三日坊主 is a well-known expression that describes someone who doesn't carry things through. The literal meaning is "three-day monk".
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(2017-09-03, 7:00 pm)Andy77 Wrote: There are a couple of neat yojijukugo's that I like:

有限実行 yuugen jikko: you said you'd do it and you followed through
不言実行 fugen jikko: silent action/actions speak louder than words

Does anyone know of one that would translate to "you said you were going to do something and you didn't" or like an unfulfilled resolution?

Thanks in advance...

One character short; 空念仏.
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(2017-09-04, 1:57 am)tetsueda Wrote:
(2017-09-03, 7:00 pm)Andy77 Wrote: There are a couple of neat yojijukugo's that I like:

有限実行 yuugen jikko: you said you'd do it and you followed through
不言実行 fugen jikko: silent action/actions speak louder than words

Does anyone know of one that would translate to "you said you were going to do something and you didn't" or like an unfulfilled resolution?

Thanks in advance...

One character short; 空念仏.

Thank you to all who responded!

(2017-09-04, 12:21 am)Katsuo Wrote:
(2017-09-03, 7:00 pm)Andy77 Wrote: 有限実行 yuugen jikko: you said you'd do it and you followed through
不言実行 fugen jikko: silent action/actions speak louder than words

Does anyone know of one that would translate to "you said you were going to do something and you didn't" or like an unfulfilled resolution?

有限実行 should be 有言実行.

三日坊主 is a well-known expression that describes someone who doesn't carry things through. The literal meaning is "three-day monk".
Edited: 2017-09-07, 5:48 am
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It's funny how both the expressions for 'not carrying things through' have to do with religious commitments.
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Can't make sense of this
「何がきったけどどう気持ちが動くかなんて」
what would be a good translation for this?
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Some context might help (and a check you definitely transcribed it right).
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Sorry if I already posted about these and forgot about it :S Settings seems to only be showing me topics I've started, and not posts I've made in other topics. Anyway.

1.
Not sure what A's second line means (Full dialog pastebin'd here: https://pastebin.com/vLksP6dY ; tentative translation attempt included).

B: でも
B: もうちょっと自覚もってよ

B: ウチのクラス, 問題多いって
B: にらまれてるんだから。。。

A: 自覚もって,  だってよ
A: 親にも言われたことないのに
("Be more attentive," she says).
*(In spite of never having been told by my? parents).

2.
(Speaker is giving their thoughts on a huge computer system that runs a cyberpunk version of Hong Kong).
(Last line's the one I feel like I'm having the most trouble with, although I make no claims about my confidence in understanding the other two!)

崩壊後の香港はSIVAなくしてかんがえられないのは確かね。
A post-calamity Hong Kong without the SIVA system is certainly unimaginable.
でも、その急進ぶりはとても不自然なのよ。
But this manner of rapid progress is quite unnatural, isn't it?
その前身である "IVA" なんて図体ばかりやたらお大きいスーパーコンピュータとやらで食べてたんだから。
Something like: [The predecessor network IVA "devoured" the (presumably erstwhile independent) large-scale supercomputers].
(Also wondering if 図体ばかり has an implication that the supercomputers were huge, but slow, like old mainframes).

3.
"あ、今の!また人の心を勝手にのぞいて!"
I think this is something like "Even now! Still looking into people's hearts/souls without permission!"
(The person being addressed responds with something like "It saves time on talking" so I think there's some implication that they're a psychic (or the exchange is a sarcastic sort of "You read my mind!" sort of thing, of course.)).

--> Thanks, pm215. I think I got また and まだ confused.
Edited: 2017-09-20, 12:12 am
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(2017-09-18, 7:39 pm)Saginaim Wrote: 3.
"あ、今の!また人の心を勝手にのぞいて!"
I think this is something like "Even now! Still looking into people's hearts/souls without permission!"
(The person being addressed responds with something like "It saves time on talking" so I think there's some implication that they're a psychic, although the exchange is kind of a non-sequitur in the bigger portion of dialogue it comes from, so...).
今の is more like '[that thing you did/said] just now' -- presumably the speaker has slightly belatedly noticed that the person they're talking to used their mind reading power. また is 'again', not 'still', though in English here the two words overlap a bit.
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What is the meaning of 行きたくなっちゃった & 遅くなっちゃっ?

1[アオイ]う~…トイレ行きたくなっちゃった…この辺にトイレあるかな?

行きたくなっ= 行きたくない "do not want to go"???
ちゃった= casual form of てしまった???





2[ユキ]ごめーーん!アオイちゃん!遅くなっちゃった

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(2017-10-09, 7:10 pm)satanael Wrote: What is the meaning of 行きたくなっちゃった & 遅くなっちゃっ?

1[アオイ]う~…トイレ行きたくなっちゃった…この辺にトイレあるかな?

行きたくなっ= 行きたくない "do not want to go"???
ちゃった= casual form of てしまった???




2[ユキ]ごめーーん!アオイちゃん!遅くなっちゃった!

1) 行きたくなっちゃった is broken down into 行きたい->行きたくなる->行きたくなった->行きたくなってしまった

So the speaker is saying they want to go to the bathroom (they ended up needing to go)

2) 遅くなっちゃった breaks down into 遅くなる->遅くなった->遅くなってしまった

Take a look here for an explanation on てしまう/っちゃう http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/com...unintended
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I was talking to a Japanese friend when they showed me this sentence: You shouldn't have to beg someone to care.

I tried translating it to Japanese but it was pretty difficult. You shouldn't have to was the hardest part. This was the best I could do:

誰かに気にしてもらうのを頼むのは要らないべきだ

Does anyone know how to translate that?
Edited: 2017-10-15, 10:25 pm
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