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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread

Short answer, しかし doesn't have to come at the start of the sentence.
Used like this it's more of an intensifier showing the speaker’s surprise/pleasure/whatever, rather than its original sense of 'however'.
暑いな、しかし。could be another example.
Edited: 2017-05-25, 7:40 pm
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(2017-05-25, 7:21 pm)Ash_S Wrote: Short answer, しかし doesn't have to come at the start of the sentence.
Used like this it's more of an intensifier showing the speaker’s surprise/pleasure/whatever, rather than its original sense of 'however'.
暑いな、しかし。could be another example.
Yeah, I was wondering about that possibility but I would have expected some punctuation in there in that case, or at least a line break in a manga speech bubble. Have you seen it in just run-on text like the original question?
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I had great trouble with this story on hukumusume, it took me nearly two hours to get around it but I believe now I got the gist of it, but there is one sentence that is still eluding me, this one(at the beginning of the story): その方、これからは若の遊び相手をしてやってくれ
What does that sentence mean, could anyone please translate it to me? Does that mean that the lord will call out both the young lord and his companions?
http://www.hukumusume.com/douwa/pc/jap/01/10.htm
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You've got two things combining here to make this confusing -- the samurai-speech dialog style, plus the usual verbs of giving and receiving pileup. To deal with the first, その方 is a 2nd person pronoun, and 若 is the lord's son. So in more standard Japanese the meaning is equivalent to あなた、これからは私の息子の遊び相手をしてやってくれ

You can analyse these combinations of verbs by starting at the end and working backwards.

The whole thing is a moderately polite command to the clever kid; it's using the command form of てくれる. I'll start you off with that as a hint and come back later with the full answer, since this forum doesn't seem to support spoiler tags...
Edited: 2017-05-28, 3:01 pm
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@pm215; thanks for the reply! humm, I think that's the reason why I had trouble with this story, first time I encountered samurai-speech.

Well, I'll give it a try after your explanation.

So, would,

あなた、これからは私の息子の遊び相手をしてやってくれ

Mean: "You, from now on you will do me the favor of being my son's playmate."
Did I got it right?

Note: Can you please also clarify "shite yaru". The "Te kureru" part I think I got it right.

Well, if I got it right this time, then something is not going to work in the story anymore, if the lord doesn't talk about the other four kids in this instance, when does he do so? Does he ever at all before the five kids enter the room? Or is it just a surprise for the smart kid?

Thanks! 
Edited: 2017-05-28, 6:25 pm
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Yep, that's close. The shite yaru part is that what the lord is asking to receive is the action of the smart kid doing something for somebody else (yaru is the give verb, like ageru):
asobi aite wo suru -- be somebody's playmate
asobi aite wo shite yaru -- do for somebody the action of being a playmate
asobi aite wo shite yatte kureru -- do for me the action of doing for somebody the action of being a playmate

(The various actors involved in these verbs of giving are as usual left implicit because they're identifiable from context and from which verbs are in use. If use of multiple giving/receiving verbs together is confusing Jay Rubin's _Gone Fishing_ has a good bit on it.)

And yes, the appearance of the duplicates is a surprise.
Edited: 2017-05-29, 2:42 am
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Thank you very much, i think I have everything sorted out now. Smile
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I have another question from Full Metal Alchemist, this is スカー talking (page 49 of the second volume). I'll give a few speech bubbles to put it in context, but I'm only confused about the first line (I'm putting breaks where the manga breaks the line):

神よ 世の全てを 創りたもうた 偉大なる 我らが神よ
今 ふたつの魂が あなたの元へ 帰りました
その広き懐に 彼らをむかえ入れ 哀れな魂に 安息と救いを 与えたまえ

Is he speaking in some dialect? I don't understand the ending on 創りたもうた, is this just some fancy way of saying 作った? And the ending bit 我らが神よ doesn't make sense to me either.

thanks very much for any help!
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That's 古典 (classical Japanese). 賜う is explained really well in this StackExchange article: https://japanese.stackexchange.com/quest...6%E7%95%8C

If I were to take a guess, I'd translate it as "Our wise God, who graciously bestowed upon us the world". (Edit: misread that as "世の果て.) But someone with more knowledge of koten might need to correct that...
Edited: 2017-06-11, 4:18 pm
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First I thought the もうた was kansaiben, which also has the meaning of しまった but that the た remains between 創り and もうた which doesn't make sense. apparently its the classical honorific verb たもう which is keigo, with the meaning of ~くださる or 「お[与]{あた}えになる. you can read more in the links below. It comes down to something like "The world that the gods (gracefully} created for us.

https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa...2167224832
https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/138664/meaning/m0u/
https://japanese.stackexchange.com/quest...6%E7%95%8C

Also have a bit of trouble with the end of the sentence 我らが神よ.
I think he is calling or making the 神 aware of what he has done(killed persons/chimera)
and requesting, to accept those souls and to let them rest in peace.


I think in total:
神よ 世の全てを 創りたもうた 偉大なる 我らが神よ
今 ふたつの魂が あなたの元へ 帰りました
comes down to something like this(forgive me,my cruel English)
Oh gods, you (gracefully) created the world for us, oh great gods,
Now, two souls have returned to you.
Edited: 2017-06-11, 4:08 pm
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I think people are right about 賜う although I'm not sure.

我らが神 I am confident on. 我らが just means "our" and 我らが神 is a common pairing which obviously means "our god". I think the よ is to add emphasis but I'm not sure.

The first line is slightly different from what people are translating it as because the second phrase is clarifying the first, so it's

God, our magnificent god who created for us the world...

世の全てを 創りたもうた 偉大なる 我らが is all modifying 神
Edited: 2017-06-11, 8:59 pm
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Thanks to everyone for your help, that makes sense now. I actually knew that 我が meant "our", but somehow the ら threw me and I was trying to interpret が as a subject marker.
Edited: 2017-06-12, 6:36 am
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The following phrase appears in a J-RPG, for some reason in hiragana only:

まほうふだをもつものだけがとおりぬけられるかべがある.

I can make out that it has something to do with a magic token (まほうふだ), a thing that is being held (もつもの) a wall (かべ) and going through (とおりぬけられる) something (probably the wall). And the inclusion of だけ (as far as) could mean that only the person in possession of a magic token can get through the wall. If that's the case, then does anything else in this sentence give a clue about the properties of said magic token? (Since I've already thoroughly explored the area and there don't appear to be any items lying around that I've missed?

Or should the がある at the end be understood in the sense of "something is present"? So that the item should be understood to be in close vicinity to the place where this message is displayed?
Edited: 2017-06-28, 3:06 am
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I think you are right with the translation. However I think もつもの is 持つ者 which means a person that holds. もの can also mean person.

がある can also just mean there is.
There is a wall that only the person in possession of a magic token can get through.
I do not know the game or the context of the game, but it does not need to be the wall that is near the person.
He just could be generally speaking.

I see no clues in the sentence about where said item is located.
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It just says "There's a wall which can only be passed through by those holding a magic talisman." I would expect to see that displayed in the area where the wall is (or it might appear as part of an explanation/description of that dungeon area.)
だけ here is 'only', not 'as far as'. もつもの is not 'a thing being held' but 'a person who holds' (者 not 物).

You should probably try to work on understanding the grammatical relation between the words in confusing sentences like this -- it sounds from your post a bit like you're just guessing plausible meanings from the meanings of the words alone.
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(2017-06-28, 4:14 am)pm215 Wrote: It just says "There's a wall which can only be passed through by those holding a magic talisman." I would expect to see that displayed in the area where the wall is (or it might appear as part of an explanation/description of that dungeon area.)
だけ here is 'only', not 'as far as'. もつもの is not 'a thing being held' but 'a person who holds' (者 not 物).

You should probably try to work on understanding the grammatical relation between the words in confusing sentences like this -- it sounds from your post a bit like you're just guessing plausible meanings from the meanings of the words alone.

Thanks for your help.

"You should probably try to work on understanding the grammatical relation between the words in confusing sentences like this -- it sounds from your post a bit like you're just guessing plausible meanings from the meanings of the words alone."

I probably should and would if I had any study material that focused specifically on that subject. After studying quite a bit of Japanese from text books (including a lot of stuff on particles), I generally still feel uncertain when dealing with longer sentences. Quite often as well, strange segments of a sentence turn out to be fixed expressions with no specific logic to them. As it is, I just trudge along, trying to make sense of whatever I run into in anime, songs or games, be it grammar, kanji or fixed expressions. And adding every new useful discovery to Anki sets.
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I dunno if you've read Jay Rubin's _Gone Fishing_ book, but the last chapter in that has a worked example of going through a long and confusing sentence that I rather like.
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I sympathize with the feeling that "real" Japanese is full of things that the textbooks don't explain. Most languages are.

In sentences like this it can help to start at the end and work backwards, paying particular attention to particles.

まほうふだを
もつものだけが
とおりぬけられる
かべがある.

From the bottom up:
There is a wall.
[Subject] can pass through.
Only a person (who) has [object]. (the fact that motsu is not passive tells you it can't be an object that is held; the particle ga tells you this is the subject)
Magic token (object)

--> There is a wall that only a person who has a magic token can pass through.

Dake is a pain because of its many uses, repeated exposure will help you distinguish among them. Good luck!

From my limited experience of RPGs, I'd expect this message to appear when you try to pass through the area (there is a wall here); no hint is given as to the nature of the magic token, which is probably to be found somewhere else (just because it's never that easy, that it would be lying right next to the wall you need it for).

(Just curious, what is the JRPG you are playing?)
Edited: 2017-06-28, 7:54 am
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(2017-06-28, 7:34 am)pm215 Wrote: I dunno if you've read Jay Rubin's _Gone Fishing_ book, but the last chapter in that has a worked example of going through a long and confusing sentence that I rather like.

Actually, I recently started on that book (in the newer version titled "Making sense of Japanese"). I'll make finishing it a priority. Thanks again!
Edited: 2017-06-28, 8:02 am
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(2017-06-28, 7:50 am)tanaquil Wrote: "In sentences like this it can help to start at the end and work backwards, paying particular attention to particles."

Thanks for the advice and for the systematic translation!

"--> There is a wall that only a person who has a magic token can pass through."

I was afraid that the sentence would be this general.

"From my limited experience of RPGs, I'd expect this message to appear when you try to pass through the area (there is a wall here); no hint is given as to the nature of the magic token, which is probably to be found somewhere else (just because it's never that easy, that it would be lying right next to the wall you need it for)."

What perplexes me about this puzzle, is that most (if not all) of the previous ones in this particular dungeon maze had very specific clues. (In one case even "the black knight guards the key to the true path", with a black knight with some nice armour to yield dutifully showing up pretty soon after.) Here, however, I've ransacked the entire preceding room (and all of the ones preceding that one) without anything pertaining to this puzzle turning up. (And it can't be a matter of overlooking something in my inventory, because this game automatically applies a relevant item if you possess it.)

The preceding room did have the following odd message in katakana that I can't make sense of: イロイッカイズツ. It might refer to traps or illusions, since the room contained plenty of those.

"(Just curious, what is the JRPG you are playing?)"
It's a hentai title. If that doesn't offend you, then I'd be happy to give you the title.
Edited: 2017-06-28, 3:14 pm
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(2017-06-28, 3:12 pm)Eminem2 Wrote: The preceding room did have the following odd message in katakana that I can't make sense of: イロイッカイズツ. It might refer to traps or illusions, since the room contained plenty of those.
My guess there would be 色一回ずつ.
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Hentai doesn't bother me. :-) Though admittedly I'm more familiar with the BL side.

Good luck with the game! Are there walk throughs available?
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Quote:It's a hentai title. If that doesn't offend you, then I'd be happy to give you the title.
Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin
you made my day, thanks XD
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(2017-06-28, 3:54 pm)tanaquil Wrote: Hentai doesn't bother me. :-) Though admittedly I'm more familiar with the BL side.

Good luck with the game! Are there walk throughs available?

It's called "Orc Kingdom - MonMusu Breeder" (オーク・キングダム~モン娘繁殖の豚人王~) and it's a variation on the rather popular "monster girl" concept. So far, I've unlocked over 25 different types of monster girl, all with their own artwork and voice acting. Examples: Dullahan, orc, octopus pirate, medusa ("gazer"), wolf, werebear, abyssal knight, dark valkyrie, cow, snow woman, ghost, minotaur and centaur. Plus some "gold rare" ones of which I've found only one so far. The soul shards for those seem to be well hidden in each of the castles defended by sorceressess.

The only part of it that's rather extreme (in my book), is that in order to create a monster girl you need a human female first. And they don't exactly volunteer for it...

Walk-throughs for it in English are conspicuous by their absence. I was hoping to create one myself and post it somewhere, once I make it through the 5th (and possibly final) castle.

(2017-06-28, 3:47 pm)pm215 Wrote:
(2017-06-28, 3:12 pm)Eminem2 Wrote: The preceding room did have the following odd message in katakana that I can't make sense of: イロイッカイズツ. It might refer to traps or illusions, since the room contained plenty of those.
My guess there would be 色一回ずつ.

It had knights in different colours, some of which were illusions that sent you back to the very beginning of the castle (some 20+ maze screens previous, *sigh*!). So 一回 means something like "once more on the merry-go-round"? That's certainly appropriate.
Edited: 2017-06-28, 11:12 pm
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(2017-06-28, 3:54 pm)tanaquil Wrote: Hentai doesn't bother me. :-) Though admittedly I'm more familiar with the BL side.

Good luck with the game! Are there walk throughs available?

Well, I've just found the answer!

In stead of having anything to do with having a magic item or not, the key appears to be... running speed! The player character can either walk or run and when you make him traverse the room in a counter-clockwise direction at running speed, he will suddenly jump the wall (it's in 2D, so exactly how he does that in a dungeon remains unclear) and make it to the labyrinth beyond.

(What's more than a little mean about this solution, is that either walking or running has never mattered before in this game. Neither are the words "walking" or "running" mentioned in any of the numerous messages displayed throughout this maze. At least, not as far as I can tell.)

Thanks again for the help, everyone! I'm off to fight some golems!
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