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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread

I went to read the article and the tone of the writer is extremely positive throughout since it's essentially a tech showcase. I came to the same conclusion as anotherjohn. The last clause of the sentence isn't really a negative thought because the series is taking a different direction but the author feeling old after seeing how far FF has come in terms of "風に揺れる髪の演出と新方式の戦闘シーン".
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I see, that makes more sense. I think the いったいぜんたい part is what's throwing me off.

Thanks!
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Can anyone clear this up for me?
Sentences that end with particles.

I realize that sometimes there is an implicit meaning such as with
良い1日を!

For others, I am confounded. Example:
何かが変わるのを待ってた
誰かのせいにしてきたんだ
ずっと変われない自分を

Did they just flip the sentence so it ends on a particle?
Is it supposed to be this? -> ずっと変われない自分を誰かのせいにしてきたんだ

Other than that, is there any rhyme or reason for ending a sentence with a particle?

Thank you Big Grin
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JapanesePod101
(2016-10-13, 9:29 am)angelneko Wrote: Can anyone clear this up for me?
Sentences that end with particles.

I realize that sometimes there is an implicit meaning such as with
良い1日を!

For others, I am confounded. Example:
何かが変わるのを待ってた
誰かのせいにしてきたんだ
ずっと変われない自分を

Did they just flip the sentence so it ends on a particle?
Is it supposed to be this? -> ずっと変われない自分を誰かのせいにしてきたんだ

Other than that, is there any rhyme or reason for ending a sentence with a particle?

Thank you Big Grin
EDIT: I'm an idiot, so I'm crossing out what is wrong; the things that are right can stay, but only one part of it actually answered the question asked...
The first two don't end in particles:

何かが変わるのを待ってた <-- たform of 待っている with the い omitted (common in casual speech, and writing that reflects it).
'Was waiting for the change in something'

誰かのせいにしてきたんだ <-- のだ; ん is, again, an abbreviation of の common in casual speech; だ is the copula. I can't think of a good way to explain the きた beyond saying that I interpret it like 'went and did __'
'Went and made it someone (else)'s fault.'


ずっと変われない自分を
Seems like it's out of context; was there a sentence prior to this? I may be wrong, but this sentence seems like it's clarifying or emphasizing the subject of a previous statement for effect.
'(To; at; in regards to) the (self/me) that can never change'

EDIT:
Missed the second half of your post...
angelneko Wrote:Did they just flip the sentence so it ends on a particle?
Yes; this is done for a dramatic effect.

Did I perhaps separate something that was originally one piece?
Edited: 2016-10-21, 12:20 pm
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Looks like song lyrics. Song lyrics can be particularly opaque because they're being poetic, or dramatic, or just dropping sentence fragments. Try something easier to understand :-)

(That is, this flipped-sentence thing does come up in conversation, and it's probably easier to understand there.)
Edited: 2016-10-13, 4:33 pm
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Found the rest:

何もないこの部屋で
In this empty room

何かが変わるのを待ってた
Waiting for something to change

誰かのせいにしてきたんだ
I came here because of someone (i.e. on someone's account)

ずっと変われない自分を (verb missing off the end, maybe 送ってきた? I don't do production Tongue)
I transported my forever unable-to-change self to this location.

No idea how to make the last line sound at all natural  Undecided

Edit: the above was what first sprang to mind, but on second thoughts I think you might be right about the flipped sentence:
ずっと変われない自分を誰かのせいにしてきたんだ
I blame somebody for being forever unable to change.

I'm starting to wish I had picked a language that makes sense Sad
Edited: 2016-10-13, 5:12 pm
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A couple of things I'm not 100% sure in this paragraph. Here's the full paragraph for context, just in case:

気象庁は、今後も同じ程度の規模の噴火が起きるおそれがあるとして、引き続き阿蘇山に噴火警戒レベル3の火口周辺警報を発表し、中岳第一火口からおおむね2キロの範囲では大きな噴石や火砕流に警戒し、風下にあたる地域では火山灰や小さな噴石などにも注意するよう呼びかけています。

Now here's the part that matters:

気象庁は、今後も同じ程度の規模の噴火が起きるおそれがあるとして引き続き阿蘇山に噴火警戒レベル3の火口周辺警報を発表し、(...)

(1) What's the purpose of として in this sentence? I've noticed とする appears quite often on NHK, but in most cases it doesn't seem to be the same meaning I'm familiar with in sentences like 親としての義務. Does it mean "apart from (what was previously said in the sentence)"?

(2) Does 引き続き mean "continuously" here? As in "気象庁 will continue to inform citizens of the current situation in the area near the volcano"? Or is it something like "next" (dunno, doesn't seem to make too much sense here, but I'm a little confused)? I never know what 引き続き means exactly whenever I see it.
Edited: 2016-10-13, 10:37 pm
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On として: this is I think the meaning you can find in 日本語文型辞典 under とする(2) sense 2a, where it defines N/Na(だ)とする and A/Vとする as:「…と見なす』「…と決める」という意味を表す。名詞のあとの「だ」は省略されることが多い。It also says this bit of grammar is a formal expression that you find in news reports, legal documents, etc. In this sentence, we have "The met office considers that there is still the same level of risk of eruption, and continues to [warn, etc]".

On 引き続き: here it means "continuing", as in the met. office were previously reporting a level 3 warning, calling for people to be on the look out for lava flows, etc, and they are still doing so -- they haven't changed their position. (This matches up with the 今後も同じ...おそれがある).
Edited: 2016-10-14, 12:51 pm
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[Trying to actually answer real questions this time...]

1.) として is acting kind of like 'if/then' here, showing that should 火が起きるおそれがある be the case, 気象庁 will do these things. The closest things Rikaisama gives are 'for' and 'thinking that...'

2.) I think so. Despite the various translations, they all come down to 'continuing'; whether that's 'continuing from one thing to the next', 'continuing an earlier state (after some delay)', or 'continuing the same state without stopping' seems to rely entirely on context.

EDIT: ninja'd...
Edited: 2016-10-14, 12:40 pm
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このほか、関東や東北と長野県、静岡県、それに新潟県の各地で震度3から1の揺れを観測しました

I'm not sure whether I've seen this "number から number" pattern before, but according to the dictionary I take it the meaning would be something along the lines of "1 out of 3". Except it doesn't make any sense to me in this sentence.

I understand 震度3 just fine and 揺れを観測しました means that the tremor was "observed/measured". But I have no idea where the "から1" means.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I guess 3から1 is "from 3 to 1" rather than "1 out of 3"? For some reason, I find it odd that they started from the highest number. That's probably it, but I'm not sure so please let me know if that's what it really means.
Edited: 2016-10-20, 11:38 pm
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(2016-10-20, 11:16 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: EDIT: Now that I think about it, I guess 3から1 is "from 3 to 1" rather than "1 out of 3"? For some reason, I find it odd that they started from the highest number. That's probably it, but I'm not sure so please let me know if that's what it really means.

That's probably it. I've certainly seen 1から3(まで), with the まで usually omitted. It is odd for the numbers to be reversed, but that's what it appears to mean. For it to be anything else, you'd expect suffixes on one or both numbers to designate what kind of unit they are; the existing context means they have to be 震度 values.

1 out of 3 would be like 3分の1 (one third) or 3回の中で一回 (one occurrence of the three), or something like that, depending on exactly what you mean by '1 out of 3'.
Edited: 2016-10-21, 12:13 am
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(2016-10-20, 11:16 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: EDIT: Now that I think about it, I guess 3から1 is "from 3 to 1" rather than "1 out of 3"? For some reason, I find it odd that they started from the highest number. That's probably it, but I'm not sure so please let me know if that's what it really means.

This is exactly right. The point of this sentence is that it was a 4 in these places (Chiba etc.) and then as far away as Nigata there was 3s, 2s, and 1s recorded. Nigata is a big prefecture and not every place recorded a shindo 3 so that's why its written "from 3 to (as low as) 1". I doubt there is any particular reason it is written backwards except that shindo is always reported from strongest to weakest so it seems most natural to say from 3 to 1.

The video has a graphic where you can see the map of numbers spread out from the epicenter.
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Obviously the higher values are more interesting, so it's perfectly logical to report those first. Presumably some other areas were measured at a zero, or even some negative value, since iirc it's a logarithmic scale.
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(2016-10-21, 4:17 am)tetsueda Wrote: Obviously the higher values are more interesting, so it's perfectly logical to report those first. Presumably some other areas were measured at a zero, or even some negative value, since iirc it's a logarithmic scale.

Shindo is neither linear nor logarithmic, although its curve is similar, and goes from 0-7 where 7 is a hard cap. Both the Kobe earthquake and the Tohoku earthquake had measurements of 7 which means the shaking exceeded those levels. A 7 causes building collapse and reinforced concrete can be severely damaged as well so there isn't much use for a level higher than 7.

One interesting thing about looking at detailed maps of this measurement is that energy is not released linearly by earthquakes and there can be peaks and valleys were the shaking is minimal and then increases again even though its now further from the epicenter.

In any case its best quality is that it gives you a quick estimation of how much damage any given area took from the shaking.

This Japan Times article seems like a good intro to the shindo scale.
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For an added bit of info, the Richter magnitude scale (what we use in the US) is a logarithmic scale, so don't let the fact that differing scales exist throw you off.
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鳥取県中部ではその後も体に揺れを感じる地震が相次ぎ、21日は震度1以上の地震が100回を超え、このうち最大震度4の地震は6回、最大震度3の地震は18回に上りました

What's exactly the purpose of 最大 here? Is it just me or would this sentence mean the exact same thing if we were to ignore these 最大? That's what it seems to me. Not sure if I failed to understand the actual meaning or just the nuance.
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It seems to me that it's saying that on the 21st, over 100 (aftershock?) quakes were felt; among those quakes, 6 reached a maximum shindo of 4 (it wasn't that high for the entire quake) and another 18 reached a maximum shindo of 3 (and it wasn't that intense for the entire quake).
Think of a seismograph output; among the data, there are intervals where the intensity is lower, and intervals where it is higher. They're reporting the highest value.


In other words, the 最大 is declaring these as maximum values. It would seem the same to many people if you left it out, I think, but some of us are anal about our data.

---------------------------------------------------------------
My question:
From a wonderful series on giant trees:
日本国内においては、特にクスノキが大きくなる樹種として知られており、日本最大といわれる「蒲生の大クス」(鹿児島県)は、その幹周りなんと24メートル余り。根元に立って目の前に樹冠(幹から伸びる枝や葉を総合した部分)を見上げれば、その巨大さにしばし呆然とすることだろう。縄文杉よりも一回り、いや二回りほど大きいのだから納得だ。

From the part in bold; is 一回り once or twice as big as the thing its comparing to? I feel like I should know this, but I can't figure it out. The よりも part makes me hesitate to accept the 'same size' assumption I originally made...
Edited: 2016-10-21, 11:30 pm
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一回り大きい is an expression to describe an object that is roughly larger.

二回り大きい means one "step" (段階) larger than 一回り大きい.

Don't take my word for it, check it out yourself Shy :
Source  Wrote:    つまり、一目瞭然の差、歴然の差というイメージでしょうか。
 これが、プログラム言語で文字フォントを拡大する「BIG」関数になると、
 入れ子構造にできるので、一段目にかかる分は「ひとまわり大きく」
 弐段目にかかる分は「ふたまわり大きく」と、
 順次年輪を外側に重ねていくかのようなイメージで大きくする機能があります。
 関数マニュアルにもこのような「ひとまわり」「ふたまわり」という表現があり、
 それぞれ「一段」ずつ拡大していくことと同義ととらえて差し支えないと思います。
 視覚イメージでフォントが大きいと判別できる差は「2~3ポイント」でしょうか。
Edited: 2016-10-22, 12:42 am
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is 勝手にして "do as you please" ?

and is "勝手にしてくれ" basically the same thing?

thank you in advance : )
Edited: 2016-10-25, 10:15 am
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(2016-10-25, 10:15 am)angelneko Wrote: is 勝手にして  "do as you please" ?
Yeah but generally not in a good way, right? Like forget it, whatever, do what you want, suit yourself.

Quote:and is "勝手にしてくれ" basically the same thing?
Yea. If anything it has even more of a feeling of just do it if you're gonna do it and get out of my hair, I don't even care anymore. もう、勝手にしてくれ。lol
Edited: 2016-10-25, 10:47 am
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(2016-10-25, 10:15 am)angelneko Wrote: is 勝手にして  "do as you please" ?

and is "勝手にしてくれ" basically the same thing?

thank you in advance : )

Yes, pretty much.
Without context though, I would expect 勝手にして to be an exasperated 'do whatever you want then' or disinterested 'I don't care what you do', and 勝手にしてくれ to be an indulgent 'You may do as you like'. Tone of voice or context can change the interpretation around quite a bit from that, but in any case, the core literal meaning is as you guessed.

Edit: Hm, or as Ash_S suggests maybe. Putting a もう in front of it does sound pretty fed up. Still there are occasional neutral or slightly positive uses. They are the exception though.
Edited: 2016-10-25, 10:54 am
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Yeah Chris is right it it can vary with tone/context.
I think there's a few different words which collocate well with it too like I mentioned もう, or another one could be 後は

Like here's a couple random examples I grabbed from the web (different nuances but same core meaning):

チェックインの際 特に詳しい説明もなく鍵を渡すから後は勝手にしてくれという感じでした。
There weren't any detailed explanations when we checked in; they just gave us the key and left us to sort ourselves out.

政府がいい感じに公共サービスを整備してきたので、政府に丸投げしている状態なんですね、金は渡すから後は勝手にしてくれと
[Talking about the high savings rate during post-war economic boom period] The govt had done a good job improving public services so people were just leaving everything up to them, basically saying we'll give you the money so just do what you want (and sort everything out for us). [this one's lost any negativity though it's got that 'do it yourselves, leave us out of it' kinda nuance]
Edited: 2016-10-25, 12:45 pm
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(2016-10-21, 10:37 pm)FlameseeK Wrote: 鳥取県中部ではその後も体に揺れを感じる地震が相次ぎ、21日は震度1以上の地震が100回を超え、このうち最大震度4の地震は6回、最大震度3の地震は18回に上りました

What's exactly the purpose of 最大 here? Is it just me or would this sentence mean the exact same thing if we were to ignore these 最大? That's what it seems to me. Not sure if I failed to understand the actual meaning or just the nuance.

震度 doesn't mean scale of earthquake but how largely each place rocks, so it can be bigger on softer ground or nearer places to ground zero, that is, different value can be observed on different places for the same earthquake.
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布団を日に晒す。

Is ひ the right reading for 日 or no? I looked through a lot of definitions for 日but I didn't find one directly related to rays of sunshine (assuming Japanese seperates those two concepts in word form).
Edited: 2016-11-09, 12:07 am
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yes it is
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