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The "What's this word/phrase?" thread

#51
I hope this hasn't been asked but I was wondering about the -kute form. I've read about it on Tae Kim but still can't fully grasp it. For example, in plenty of songs I hear things like 「あなたにただ会いたくて」 I'm just wondering why they use the -kute form instead of just saying 「あなたにただ会いたい」.
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#52
rayne Wrote:I hope this hasn't been asked but I was wondering about the -kute form. I've read about it on Tae Kim but still can't fully grasp it. For example, in plenty of songs I hear things like 「あなたにただ会いたくて」 I'm just wondering why they use the -kute form instead of just saying 「あなたにただ会いたい」.
I'm not sure if I understand your question, but あなたにただ会いたくて is sort of an incomplete sentence. It's very common in lyrics to end with て or で and leave out the rest. It sounds more emotional and often poetic. This lyrics style is so wide-spread it could sound cliche if you use くて ending in too many sentences.

Teasing always works if done properly when it comes to relationships and stuff.
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#53
Is ending sentences with くて related to 余情? (or is it 余韻?)
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#54
albion Wrote:Is ending sentences with くて related to 余情? (or is it 余韻?)
"あなたにただ会いたくて。" has more 余情 in it and gives more 余韻 than the simple sentence "あなたにただ会いたい。" does. But 余情 and 余韻 are subjective by definition, so I can't say ending with くて is always suggestive and evokes certain emotions. I'm not sure what the -くて form means exactly, but if you're asking if a sentence that ends with くて is always related to 余情 and/or 余韻, that's not the case. For example, you're watching a girl lacing her shoes and you end a sentence with くて like this:

Moeblob: ここをここに通して、引っ張るっと。…あれ? おかしいな。
(Take this through here, and shoot it out. Huh? Hey, that's funny.)
You: そうじゃなくて。ホントお前不器用だな。
(Come on! You're the clumsiest person I've ever seen.)

そうじゃなくて in this dialogue doesn't have 余情 or 余韻. You just omitted certain words, and that's it. You may be implying annoyance here, but it's not 余情 or 余韻.
Edited: 2009-07-02, 11:47 am
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#55
I have a question about a sentence I found in Yahoo Dictionary:

彼は貧乏の味など知らない
He does not know what it is to be poor.

I'm confused about the bolded portion. Is it 味な ど or 味 など ? I ask this question because I kind of like how the Japanese use 味 (taste/flavor) in this sentence, but I can't figure out what ど is doing.. is it a part of な (i.e. 等/など=et cetera) or is な a part of 味 and ど is doing something completely different? If it's など, what's it doing in that sentence? Of course if its a silly/nonsensical sentence I shouldn't waste my time on, feel free to let me know that too.

Thanks a lot!
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#56
strugglebunny Wrote:I have a question about a sentence I found in Yahoo Dictionary:

彼は貧乏の味など知らない
He does not know what it is to be poor.

I'm confused about the bolded portion. Is it 味な ど or 味 など ? I ask this question because I kind of like how the Japanese use 味 (taste/flavor) in this sentence, but I can't figure out what ど is doing.. is it a part of な (i.e. 等/など=et cetera) or is な a part of 味 and ど is doing something completely different? If it's など, what's it doing in that sentence? Of course if its a silly/nonsensical sentence I shouldn't waste my time on, feel free to let me know that too.

Thanks a lot!
To me it reads: He doesn't what it's like to be poor 'n stuff. (more lit: He doesn't know the taste of being poor etc.)
'n stuff' being など(等), as if there are more things that he doesn't know what it's like to be. Hope that helped.

*I could be wrong since I'm not a native Tongue
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#57
I would agree with Musashi.
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#58
strugglebunny Wrote:I have a question about a sentence I found in Yahoo Dictionary:

彼は貧乏の味など知らない
He does not know what it is to be poor.

I'm confused about the bolded portion. Is it 味な ど or 味 など ? I ask this question because I kind of like how the Japanese use 味 (taste/flavor) in this sentence, but I can't figure out what ど is doing.. is it a part of な (i.e. 等/など=et cetera) or is な a part of 味 and ど is doing something completely different? If it's など, what's it doing in that sentence? Of course if its a silly/nonsensical sentence I shouldn't waste my time on, feel free to let me know that too.

Thanks a lot!
It's 味 + など. 私は貧乏の味を知らない and 私は貧乏の味など知らない both mean "I don't know what it's like to be poor," but there is a difference in nuance. The former is neutral while the latter implies the speaker looks down on the poor.

If the subject of the sentence and the speaker are different, sometimes it's not clear who is looking down on the thing など is attached to. For example, if the speaker of your example sentence is a rich guy and bragging about his son, most likely the speaker is arrogant. The son, i.e., 彼, might be a humble person. If it's part of narrative in a novel, it could be "彼" who thinks the poor are all losers. The narrator may or may not be haughty.

Here are some examples:

私は嘘をつきません。I don't tell lies.
私は嘘などつきません。I don't tell lies. (Liars should die in a fire, and I'm not such a horrible person.)
君の言うことは信じられない。 I don't believe you.
君の言うことなど信じられない。I don't believe you. (Who'd believe you?)
あいつお前と話したくないんだってさ。He said he didn't want to talk to you.
あいつお前なんかと話したくないんだってさ。He said he didn't want to talk to a person like you. ("He," the speaker or both are looking down on "you.")
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#59
To me, など in this kind of sentence gives it more of a contemptuous, disdainful tone, like you're looking down on him for it. (Similarly with なんか or なんて as well.)

*But non-native, so take as you will.

Edit; magamo got there before me with a much better explanation.
Edited: 2009-07-05, 2:30 pm
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#60
I guess it does sound kinda looking-down or criticizing.
In Chinese we also use it like: 他不知道那些穷的滋味 = He doesn't know what it's like to be poor (he should try it see if he likes it!)
那些 translation to など and 的滋味 being の味.
But I think it can also sound like 'He doesn't know what it's like to be poor (he doesn't know better)'
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#61
Yes, forgot to mention the 'derogatory' aspect of など that DOBJG mentioned (that's where I first learned it). I hadn't put much thought on the possible interpretations of it here, it seemed to me like the speaker was looking down on the subject. Just a guess, but I bet they wouldn't have used the PL2 + 味 if the state of poverty itself was being derided? Or am I mistaken in thinking that 味 has a certain elevating sense to it.
Edited: 2009-07-05, 3:13 pm
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#62
albion Wrote:Edit; magamo got there before me with a much better explanation.
I was about to edit my post so it says "albion gave a succinct explanation in the following post."

Anyway, reading Musashi's post about Chinese 那些, I'm now thinking sometimes など can be more like "insignificant" than "looking down." Well, I know they're almost the same, but there is a slight difference. I mean, if you look down on someone or despise something, you think it's unimportant. But just because it's insignificant doesn't mean you're contemptuous of it. For example,

彼は貧乏の味など知らない。奴隷には資産を持つ自由などないのだから。
(He doesn't know what it is like to be poor, for a slave doesn't even have the right to possess property in the first place.)

Here I use など twice: 貧乏の味など and 自由など. The meaning of these などs is like "He has no human rights, let alone the right to be poor or possess any money." I guess this kind of sense isn't considered "disdainful" or "contemptuous," though the speaker is regarding the things as unimportant. The speaker may be thinking the human rights are important, but in this particular case where "彼" has none of them, neither "taste of poor" nor "one particular right" isn't as important.

Am I making sense here? I know grammar of your mother tongue is one of the most elusive things, but I should be able to explain it better...
Edited: 2009-07-05, 4:02 pm
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#63
magamo Wrote:Anyway, reading Musashi's post about Chinese 的, I'm now thinking sometimes など can be more like "insignificant" than "looking down." Well, I know they're almost the same, but there is a slight difference. I mean, if you look down on someone or despise something, you think it's unimportant. But just because it's insignificant doesn't mean you're contemptuous of it. For example,
The 的 translated solely to の actually. As in 私の本 --> 我的書 Smile
Or did you mean something else?
Edited: 2009-07-05, 3:59 pm
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#64
Musashi Wrote:
magamo Wrote:Anyway, reading Musashi's post about Chinese 的, I'm now thinking sometimes など can be more like "insignificant" than "looking down." Well, I know they're almost the same, but there is a slight difference. I mean, if you look down on someone or despise something, you think it's unimportant. But just because it's insignificant doesn't mean you're contemptuous of it. For example,
The 的 translated solely to の actually. As in 私の本 --> 我的書 Smile
Or did you mean something else?
Ah, I meant 那些 (など), not 的. Thanks. I edited my previous post.
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#65
Thanks a lot everybody. Didn't know など made things seem to condescending. I wish this dictionaries would give you a heads up on how polite the examples are.
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#66
I've been trying to understand this sentence:
教育こそは国の将来にかかわる重要なことではないでしょうか。
Does it mean: That education has to do with(linked to) the country's future is not important, right?

Any help appreciated thanks!
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#67
You might translate it as: This is education we are talking about, is it not vitally important to a countries future?

You seem to be being confused by "ではないでしょうか". This doesn't make the sentence negative, but politely rhetorically suggests something. It's one of the most gentle ways to state something you believe.
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#68
thermal Wrote:You might translate it as: This is education we are talking about, is it not vitally important to a countries future?

You seem to be being confused by "ではないでしょうか". This doesn't make the sentence negative, but politely rhetorically suggests something. It's one of the most gentle ways to state something you believe.
Ahh, I got it now, yeah the ~ない part was indeed a bit confusing to me. Thanks you cleared it up! Smile
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#69
This is kind of unorthodox, but I saw two calligraphy wall scrolls at an 温泉 in an episode of 灼眼のシャナ。

I looked for hours about what they could mean, both in Chinese and Japanese, but they don't even SHOW UP on google as phrases, probably because I can't quite get the correct kanji to show up in IME Pad.

Here is the first one:
[Image: vlcsnap1611433.png]

Link to first one: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4987/vl...611433.png

and the second:

[Image: vlcsnap416564.png]

Link: http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6205/...416564.png

Thanks 皆さん。
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#70
I'm not sure what the 着 in this sentence means:

オリジナル着ムービー配信中

Original Clothing Movie,in the middle of distribution?

お願いします
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#71
着(ちゃく) is used to refer to incoming signals to phones. 着うた(ちゃくうた) is a clip of a song used as a ringtone (着メロ/着信メロディー), 着ボイス for a voice/sound clip.

着ムービー is a movie clip that plays when you get a call, which is being distributed (you can download it, etc.) now.
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#72
I've been reading a few twitters and came across this:

でも友達の友達がいなくなったらその友達はきっと悲しむ。そしたら自分も悲しい。その連鎖でだれもいなくなっちゃいけないかー。

From what I can gather, it means somethng like "But if my friends' friends can't come then my friends will be sad, which means I'll be sad aswell. This means that noone cannot be here."

It's the last sentence that's really annoying me. I found that 連鎖 meant chain, so would it mean like the chain of people not coming would continue? but then the いけない at the end would mean that it would be bad if that happened.
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#73
いなくなる could be 'to die' instead. So if a friend of your friend dies, then your friend will be sad. And that will make you sad as well.

I think the chain here is of people becoming unhappy because their friends are sad.

だれも can mean 'everyone' when used with affirmative sentences as opposed to negative. If I'm reading it right, いなくなっちゃ is from いなくなっては which would technically be an affirmative sentence? (they become not there) So what has to be is everyone dying in this chain?

Admittedly, I've kind of confused myself now.
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#74
Ok, I'm kind of a newbie in terms of vocabulary. I can't quite understand みごとに in two sentences in the OL進化論 manga. I have the bilingual edition, and I noticed the author likes to shorten some words consistently, like すいません for すみません. みごとに or just みごと seems to refer to "everyone" in some context. The sentences and translations are:

みごとにカップルばかりねー
Everyone's already with someone, aren't they?

8時境にみごとにまったくなくなりました
No one stayed after 8 o'clock.

JDIC translates みごと as "(adj-na, n) splendid; magnificent; beautiful; admirable; praiseworthy act; feat; commendable deed;". I suspect this is not the meaning in these two sentences. It may be a common contraction in colloquial speech, but I can't find an explanation anywhere. So, any clues?
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#75
彼や彼女がいない時、友達に誰か紹介してもらったことがありますか。

Can anyone translate this for me? I'm having trouble with exactly who's being introduced, and why there are no boys and girls, among other things. I don't know, just the whole sentence is very confusing, even though it seems simple enough.
Edited: 2009-07-12, 9:01 pm
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