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Is the Japanese Core 2k/6k enough for N2?

#1
Anyone here who passed JLPT N2 with just the vocabularies from Japanese Core 2k/6k?

Just wondering if the 6k vocabularies of the Japanese Core is enough to pass N2.
Edited: 2018-02-13, 12:03 am
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#2
n2 vocabulary lists seem to be around 6k words, but past the most common couple thousand, they're not going to be the same words as core6k
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#3
I think once you're at N2 level you're well into not really knowing how many words you know anyway. Even if you only actively studied core6k words, you've likely read enough that you've encountered a bunch more vocabulary passively. My guess is that C6K is probably enough if you're good enough at all the other parts of the test (and particularly the reading) so you'd score worse on the vocab bits and make it up on the other parts.

Easiest approach is to do some mock tests and see which parts you're scoring worse on and why.
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#4
Hm, we had this debate before, and based on my Kanzen Master N2 Vocab, which lists about 2500 terms, I'd say it's not enough. If you add 2500 terms for N3, and 2500 terms for N4, you're around 7.5K which I find a bit more realistic for N2.

But like people above pointed out, the problem with core is not so much the quantity, it's the selection of the words that probably don't fully reflects JLPT lists, especially more modern ones, plus the fact that JLPT has always something like 10% (wasn't it?) of out of list vocab.
Edited: 2018-02-13, 5:51 am
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#5
Nope. However I did Core 2k/6k, then did the vocabulary deck here: http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt2/
deleting known words and adding a sentence for each unknown word. I passed N2 on my first try.
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#6
(2018-02-13, 9:30 am)Bokusenou Wrote: Nope. However I did Core 2k/6k, then did the vocabulary deck here: http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt2/
deleting known words and adding a sentence for each unknown word. I passed N2 on my first try.

Did you use the cumulative list which is N5 to N2 or just the list for N2?

--

So if I finish the Japanese Core 2k/6k/10k maybe that's already enough for N2? Is it ok to do 50 vocabularies per day and cap my due cards to 100?
Edited: 2018-02-18, 2:54 am
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#7
(2018-02-18, 2:54 am)Kanonry Wrote:
(2018-02-13, 9:30 am)Bokusenou Wrote: Nope. However I did Core 2k/6k, then did the vocabulary deck here: http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt2/
deleting known words and adding a sentence for each unknown word. I passed N2 on my first try.

Did you use the cumulative list which is N5 to N2 or just the list for N2?

--

So if I finish the Japanese Core 2k/6k/10k maybe that's already enough for N2? Is it ok to do 50 vocabularies per day and cap my due cards to 100?
I used the cumulative list. Not sure about Core 10k as I didn't do it. As for how fast to go through a deck. Use whatever works for you. Vocabulary was the first thing I got through when it came to studying for N2 & N1, because pretty much everything else relies on vocabulary.
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#8
I didn't do Core10K until I was studying for N1, so I think it is likely to be overkill for N2 compared to studying other things.
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#9
(2018-02-18, 3:02 pm)pm215 Wrote: I didn't do Core10K until I was studying for N1, so I think it is likely to be overkill for N2 compared to studying other things.

I was thinking that my aim after N2 is N1 so why not just plow through the Japanese Core 2k/6k/10k so I don't need to find/create another vocabulary deck.

How many vocabularies do you guys memorize per day? And the estimate of your due cards? Do you cap your due cards?
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#10
Quote:How many vocabularies do you guys memorize per day?

I am also going for N2 and have been learning about 15 Core 6K words a day since I passed the N3 in December. I am frontloading a bit and have started decreasing the amount of words I learn as I expect to pass 6K in July (currently know 4250 words)
Quote:And the estimate of your due cards?
About 160 due per day plus the 15 new ones.  Daily reviewing takes about an hour.  I am usually at or above 90%. I usually “review forgotten cards” until I am solid on the ones I missed. 
Quote:Do you cap your due cards?
No.
Edited: 2018-02-20, 2:12 pm
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#11
(2018-02-20, 2:11 pm)mspertus Wrote:
Quote:How many vocabularies do you guys memorize per day?

I am also going for N2 and have been learning about 15 Core 6K words a day since I passed the N3 in December. I am frontloading a bit and have started decreasing the amount of words I learn as I expect to pass 6K in July (currently know 4250 words)
Quote:And the estimate of your due cards?
About 160 due per day plus the 15 new ones.  Daily reviewing takes about an hour.  I am usually at or above 90%. I usually “review forgotten cards” until I am solid on the ones I missed. 
Quote:Do you cap your due cards?
No.


Are you doing both recognition and production?

When are you going to take the N2 exam?

About the 90% is that for mature/young/learning cards?

---

I've been doing 50 new vocabularies per day and capping my review to just 100. I already finished 6k of the Japanese Core 2k/6k/10k and currently reviewing N2 grammar. Here's my stats for the Japanese Core 6k:

I do both recognition and production.

https://imgur.com/a/kR6Zl

Do you think I should keep this up or should I lower my new cards when I start learning 6k+?
Edited: 2018-02-21, 11:29 pm
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#12
(2018-02-20, 10:24 pm)Kanonry Wrote: I've been doing 50 new vocabularies per day and capping my review to just 100.

And that works for you? I mean you are pretty far in, so I guess it does :S Did you know a lot of the words before? Just wondering, because basically with adding so many words and capping the reviews at only twice the number, you'll delay a lot of the reviews considerably. (Because there are way more cards due than you review). Your stats seem fine I think(? not sure, currently using other srs where I can't see the stats myself), but it still just makes me wonder if you ran into any trouble cause of that. Have you been doing it like that from the start or did you change it up recently? (Makes me wonder if I should just up the intervals a bit myself :S)
Edited: 2018-02-21, 5:48 am
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#13
(2018-02-21, 5:44 am)sumsum Wrote:
(2018-02-20, 10:24 pm)Kanonry Wrote: I've been doing 50 new vocabularies per day and capping my review to just 100.

And that works for you? I mean you are pretty far in, so I guess it does :S Did you know a lot of the words before? Just wondering, because basically with adding so many words and capping the reviews at only twice the number, you'll delay a lot of the reviews considerably. (Because there are way more cards due than you review). Your stats seem fine I think(? not sure, currently using other srs where I can't see the stats myself), but it still just makes me wonder if you ran into any trouble cause of that. Have you been doing it like that from the start or did you change it up recently? (Makes me wonder if I should just up the intervals a bit myself :S)

I started my vocabulary with 日本語単語スピードマスター BASIC 1800, reviewing 30 new cards per day, capping my reviews from 70 to 100. I passed N4 in July 2017, got an A in vocabulary. Got tired of inputting vocabs in my anki so I searched for a pre-made deck and I found out about Japanese Core in August 2017 so I deleted my old vocab deck and started Japanese Core from scratch, I wanted to finish it fast for the N3 exam so I started doing 50 vocabs per day and capping my reviews to 100. I finished it until 4k. I passed N3 in Dec 2017, also got an A in vocabulary. Just a few days ago I changed the interval modifier to 110% since I was just reviewing due cards, no new cards. It used to be 100%.

I still do forget vocabularies here and there. Lots of young/learning cards. I don't live in Japan so I'm not completely immersed in the language. I also haven't dived into raw manga/novels. Just the textbooks. 

I'm not sure if I should take the N2 exam this July. Maybe I should take it easy and take it this Dec instead?

When are you going to take the exam sumsum?
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#14
I'm planning on taking N2 in December... I wanted to take it in July but well, my dad is celebrating a milestone birthday that day and that definitely has priority Wink So December it is!

How did the other parts of N3 go for you? Did you have any time issues on the 2nd part (reading/grammar) or did you have some time left? I heard required reading speed picks up quite a bit for N2, so if you haven't read much up til now that might be a problem? So far that hasn't really been an issue for me but after talking to some previous testtakers I wonder if it might for N2 or N1 later down the road...

To be honest, if I read what you are doing, you seem to be a completely different learner from me Big Grin Makes me a bit jealous, even though I'm not too unhappy with where I'm at right now. I'm lazy, skipping my SRS reviews quite often, and often learn in bursts (with some breaks in between) rather than the steady (and fast!) progress you seem to be making. I'm doing quite a bit of immersion (watching drama, anime, listening to music, reading childrens books), but not so much serious study, I'm generally good at "kind of getting it" (which helps a lot with reading/listening) but am pretty bad at all the small details (especially vocab....)

Looking at what you do and what I do, I can't help but feel that I would probably benefit a lot from being more focused in my studies and cramming some more vocab and grammar and you could probably benefit a bit from some more immersion. But that's just my first impression, so who knows for sure. Smile Good luck either way.
Edited: 2018-02-21, 4:57 pm
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#15
(2018-02-21, 4:55 pm)sumsum Wrote: I'm planning on taking N2 in December... I wanted to take it in July but well, my dad is celebrating a milestone birthday that day and that definitely has priority Wink So December it is!

How did the other parts of N3 go for you? Did you have any time issues on the 2nd part (reading/grammar) or did you have some time left? I heard required reading speed picks up quite a bit for N2, so if you haven't read much up til now that might be a problem? So far that hasn't really been an issue for me but after talking to some previous testtakers I wonder if it might for N2 or N1 later down the road...

To be honest, if I read what you are doing, you seem to be a completely different learner from me Big Grin Makes me a bit jealous, even though I'm not too unhappy with where I'm at right now. I'm lazy, skipping my SRS reviews quite often, and often learn in bursts (with some breaks in between) rather than the steady (and fast!) progress you seem to be making. I'm doing quite a bit of immersion (watching drama, anime, listening to music, reading childrens books), but not so much serious study, I'm generally good at "kind of getting it" (which helps a lot with reading/listening) but am pretty bad at all the small details (especially vocab....)

Looking at what you do and what I do, I can't help but feel that I would probably benefit a lot from being more focused in my studies and cramming some more vocab and grammar and you could probably benefit a bit from some more immersion. But that's just my first impression, so who knows for sure. Smile Good luck either way.

How long have you been studying Japanese? When was the last time that you took N3? Are you currently living in Japan?

I got A in the N3 grammar. For the reading section, I lacked time with the last article so I just skimmed through it. I also heard that you need to speed up your reading for N2 so I might start reading beyond textbooks.

N2 still seems out of reach for me. I still haven't learned enough vocabularies. So maybe taking it this Dec would give me enough time to study, including lots of reading.

I don't feel like starting to read raw manga/novels without finishing the grammar so I might finish N1 grammar as well so my only problem would be the vocabularies that I'll encounter. 

You can see that I'm lazy for capping my due cards. There are also days that I don't review anki. There was even more or less 2 weeks straight that I didn't review anki/anything bec. I was out of town and I just wanna relax.
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#16
(2018-02-21, 7:14 pm)Kanonry Wrote: I don't feel like starting to read raw manga/novels without finishing the grammar so I might finish N1 grammar as well so my only problem would be the vocabularies that I'll encounter. 
Up to you, but you definitely don't need to do it in that order. N1 grammar tends toward more formal written expressions, so it doesn't come up all that much in manga or the easier to read novels. And starting to read more widely will help to cement the grammar and vocab you've already learned, keeping it from getting mixed up in your head with newer stuff. I find that the grammar points I studied because I ran into them in something I was reading and looked them up tend to stick with me better than the ones I learnt textbook style, too.
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#17
(2018-02-20, 10:24 pm)Kanonry Wrote: Are you doing both recognition and production?
Yes. I add about 15 recognition words per day (currently 4260) and 5 production words (currently 1000)

Quote:When are you going to take the N2 exam?
December (planned)


Quote:About the 90% is that for mature/young/learning cards?
I try to keep the aggregate daily review over 90%. Otherwise I cut back my acquisition rate. More thoughts below.

Quote:I've been doing 50 new vocabularies per day and capping my review to just 100. I already finished 6k of the Japanese Core 2k/6k/10k and currently reviewing N2 grammar. Here's my stats for the Japanese Core 6k:

I do both recognition and production.

https://imgur.com/a/kR6Zl

Do you think I should keep this up or should I lower my new cards when I start learning 6k+?

While you've done a great job enlarging your vocabulary, I think this would be a good time to cut the new cards back somewhat and focus on solidifying it. After all, you already have close to enough cards for N2, but your young card recognition rate of 82% means that you really don't know over 1000 of the core 6K. By contrast, I don't have as many cards, but my young card rate is 94% (and I'll still have more than enough by the time the exam rolls around). Here are my stats:

[Image: anki_2018_02_22.jpg]
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#18
(2018-02-21, 7:14 pm)Kanonry Wrote: How long have you been studying Japanese? When was the last time that you took N3? Are you currently living in Japan?

Hard to say... I have a bit of a history with Japanese, as I went for a 10 months exchange to Japan back in 2006/07 when I barely knew anything at all. Was super lazy over there as well (kinda want to kick my younger self for that...) and I would probably have barely passed N5 after returning....  I then didn't do anything with Japanese for quite many years (dabbled a bit with some resources here and there but never got far) until I basically restarted in 2015, when I signed up for some course at university.

I could only attend a semester and it's a bit embarrassing to say but it pushed me to finally finish my first beginner textbook ever after nearly 10 years!! Blush    I passed N5 in the summer of 2015 right after the course, and went back to selfstudy from there on (with some breaks here and there tho way more diligent than the 10 years before *cough*), I signed up for N3 in winter 2016 and when I sat for it I thought I had totally bombed the vocab section but miraculously I passed! (not a super great score, but a pretty safe pass even in the vocab/grammar section with Bs for both, a decent reading score (45/60) and a somewhat good listening score (51/60)). I basically spend the first half of 2017 reviewing N3 vocab and grammar and was then contemplating whether to sign up for N2 in december or not, but ultimately decided to postpone that til 2018 and so here we are! I would have preferred to take the test in July if only for a bit of a motivational push, but that's not an option this year for me, so December it shall be.

I'd say if I had to take the test today, I would probably pass listening but not the rest. Reading is a bit of a 50/50, I'd probably be somewhere around the pass/fail mark and if I were a bit lucky with the contained vocab I could mayyybe pass, but could also fail miserably if it goes the other way round. Grammar would be probably around the pass/fail mark as well, but my vocab/kanji knowledge still needs the most work (and is basically holding back the other areas as well, even listening)

My plan is more or less to keep reading and listening to whatever I find fun for most of the year but add in some more dedicated vocab study. I might do some more JLPT-specific reading in the second half of the year once the test date draws nearer then. I do appreciate the structure and goals the JLPT gives me, but ultimately my goal is to enjoy more native material and hopefully also visit Japan again in a few years time, so I'd rather focus on native material as much as I can. It's just more fun and motivating for me Smile I'm still pretty hyped that they start to make some sense, even though I still have a long way to go (it will take a while until I can graduate from the children's books I keep reading...).
Edited: 2018-02-22, 1:10 pm
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#19
(2018-02-22, 11:24 am)mspertus Wrote: While you've done a great job enlarging your vocabulary, I think this would be a good time to cut the new cards back somewhat and focus on solidifying it. After all, you already have close to enough cards for N2, but your young card recognition rate of 82% means that you really don't know over 1000 of the core 6K. By contrast, I don't have as many cards, but my young card rate is 94% (and I'll still have more than enough by the time the exam rolls around). Here are my stats:

Nice stats! Thanks for the advice! I think I'll stop adding new cards (vocabulary) and just review the due cards since I'm already preoccupied with N2 grammar. That might help to catch up with my due cards which accumulated to less than 5k! since I neglected and cap my reviews. Then I might start adding vocabularies again after I'm done with the grammar.


They said that Japanese Core 6k is not enough for N2, are you going to continue with Core 10k or will you review/create another vocabulary deck dedicated for N2?

Would you mind sharing your result in N3? Like if you got A/B in vocabulary/reading/listening?

And how long have you been studying Japanese?

Are you in Japan now or went to Japan for studies/work?

--------

@sumsum

Thanks for sharing your story! Its nice that you had the opportunity to study in Japan, its the experience that counts! Never mind the being lazy part.
Edited: 10 hours ago
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#20
(Yesterday, 6:41 am)Kanonry Wrote: Nice stats! Thanks for the advice! I think I'll stop adding new cards (vocabulary) and just review the due cards since I'm already preoccupied with N2 grammar. That might help to catch up with my due cards which accumulated to less than 5k! since I neglected and cap my reviews. Then I might start adding vocabularies again after I'm done with the grammar.
I think that's a good idea. I'd also encourage you to increase your due card cap to (at least) 250. I usually get about 160 due cards each day, and you have more than 10 times as many young + learn cards as I do!
Quote:They said that Japanese Core 6k is not enough for N2, are you going to continue with Core 10k or will you review/create another vocabulary deck dedicated for N2?
I will be around 7K words by December even though I will be ramping down my frontloading pretty heavily. I am using a big vocabulary deck, so what is sometimes recommended is after you pass 6K is to suspend all of the remaining words that are not labeled N2, N3, N4, or N5. I don't think I'd create a new deck, because it wouldn't leverage my SRS history.

Frankly, I think I may just continue on without looking at JLPT lablels. I think that if it comes down to it, it's not so much how many words you know, it's how many you know well, and I'm pretty confident that if I have over 6K words solidly mature, vocabulary won't be my problem.
Quote:Would you mind sharing your result in N3? Like if you got A/B in vocabulary/reading/listening?
I got A in both Vocabulary and Grammar (the only sections they give letter grades). My numerical score for language/grammar was 41/60, even though I only knew 3K words, which is less than the recommended 3500 and not prioritized around JLPT. I was weaker in Reading and Listening (33 and 28), which was mainly a speed/fluency issue. I view all of these as supporting my feeling that "Quality is more important than quantity."
Quote:And how long have you been studying Japanese?
That's a difficult question. I studied it in college and then dropped it without ever going to Japan. About a dozen years ago, I did some review to read my daughter bedtime stories from Doraemon. I wasn't any good at adult Japanese, but I was pretty good at things you would see in a manga for seven year olds, like "how to tell bedwetting jokes in Japanese :/" I passed the old 3級 (equivalent to the current n4) and then dropped it again. After my daughter graduated high school last June, we decided to take a one week trip to Japan before she moved out, so I crammed for a couple of months and managed to get by about 70% in Japanese and 30% in English for my first time in Japan, 35 years after any formal study in it! I really liked Japan, so I kept working on it through the fall and passed the n3 in December. I'm shooting for the N2 next December, but with two jobs, some family obligations, and probably some reduced rate of fluency development in my late 50s, I'm telling myself I'll probably have to take it twice.
Quote:Are you in Japan now or went to Japan for studies/work?
No. I've just spent the one week in Japan Sad What's currently motivating me is that I'm thinking if I pass N2, maybe I could get a visiting position at a Japanese University for a summer teaching computer science. (Note that I have not done any research about how likely that is)
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#21
I suspect 6k should be enough for N2, but you'd be cutting it very close. At least you would need to have 100% solid grasp on those 6k words. I base it on the fact that I was able to pass N1 with 10k, but by a rather small margin. I think most who have taken N2 and N1 agree that the most critical skill is reading speed, and solid grasp of vocab is a critical component of your reading speed.
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#22
(Yesterday, 2:28 pm)cmertb Wrote: I suspect 6k should be enough for N2, but you'd be cutting it very close. At least you would need to have 100% solid grasp on those 6k words. I base it on the fact that I was able to pass N1 with 10k, but by a rather small margin. I think most who have taken N2 and N1 agree that the most critical skill is reading speed, and solid grasp of vocab is a critical component of your reading speed.

Thanks! I targeted myself at 7K words known pretty solidly by test time and focusing on fluency rather than vocabulary expansion beyond that. Does that seem reasonable to you?
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#23
(Yesterday, 3:24 pm)mspertus Wrote:
(Yesterday, 2:28 pm)cmertb Wrote: I suspect 6k should be enough for N2, but you'd be cutting it very close. At least you would need to have 100% solid grasp on those 6k words. I base it on the fact that I was able to pass N1 with 10k, but by a rather small margin. I think most who have taken N2 and N1 agree that the most critical skill is reading speed, and solid grasp of vocab is a critical component of your reading speed.

Thanks! I targeted myself at 7K words known pretty solidly by test time and focusing on fluency rather than vocabulary expansion beyond that. Does that seem reasonable to you?

It seems reasonable, provided you also make sure that the vocab you study also covers all the JLPT N2 lists floating around. For example, you know all the vocab on renshuu.org JLPT N2 list.

And, of course, try J-CAT a few months in advance to make sure you're in the target range for your JLPT level.
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#24
@mspertus

Thanks for sharing your story.

About the 250 due card cap, I don't think I can manage that since I also got 3 other decks that I need to review. I'll try maybe upto 150. But I'll try to increase it if my other decks' due cards are back to normal.

I'll also just continue on with the Japanese Core 6k+ without suspending anything.

Good luck to the 3 of us and may you get the visiting position that you were talking about.
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#25
I'll toss in an anecdote about the Core6k. I moved to Japan and needed a quick way to jump start my word recognition in Japan and then went on to clear the Core6k over a few months. After that I picked up a few light novels and added a couple hundred words into the deck and then attempted the N2. I missed passing by 2-3 points due to poor results on the reading section (the long passages section) and this was mostly due to not having good enough reading and comprehension speed on those sections.

I think the Core6k really helped me out, but I also don't discount that working in Japan also helped out significantly.
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