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Production practice

#1
Are there any recommended Anki decks or simply lists or other resources of English to Japanese sentences (hopefully, common patterns) to practice production? Maybe with cloze deletion already included? Or any recommended method to practice production in general (other than keep writing)?
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#2
There are. There's a Tae Kim deck with close deletion, for instance, which is what I tried back in the day. But I didn't find it a whole lotta fun, tbh. Felt like way too much work for the relatively small amount of actual knowledge I was getting out of it...probably because it's a lot of small, out of context sentences, where you have to memorize what the missing part is, rather than develop the understanding of why a specific word fits there.

Maybe if it was longer sentences, that are part of a cohesive text, cloze deletion would be more helpful. Anyway, you should look for threads on cloze deletion. I mostly stay out of them, but I know they exist. I believe there are also decks for sale, in various places, that have cloze deletion. Maybe those are higher quality.
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#3
Thanks for the advice. Without cloze deletion, are there any good sentence decks/lists optimized for E-J study? Or people basically use the same decks as for J-E, but in reverse?
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JapanesePod101
#4
I've been using the JSPEC spreadsheet from this thread:
https://forum.koohii.com/thread-2609.html

I think it's having a useful effect, but I've not got far enough yet to know really.

One problem with doing E-J sentences is when there's more than one possible answer. I don't think we're really trying to memorize the sentence, so it needs enough hints in the question.

It might lead you astray if the sentences aren't already really easy in the J-E direction. And do read the book too!
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#5
HelenF, thanks for the suggestion, I'm trying it out now.
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#6
What do you mean exactly by "practice production"?
words? sentences? grammar? set content? your own thoughts? speed focused? accuracy focused? Speaking? writing?
situation based? genre based?
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#7
(2017-12-26, 12:03 pm)HelenF Wrote: I've been using the JSPEC spreadsheet from this thread:
https://forum.koohii.com/thread-2609.html

I think it's having a useful effect, but I've not got far enough yet to know really.

One problem with doing E-J sentences is when there's more than one possible answer. I don't think we're really trying to memorize the sentence, so it needs enough hints in the question.

It might lead you astray if the sentences aren't already really easy in the J-E direction. And do read the book too!

I'm working through JSPEC too.  I read the chapter then do the exercises--which are all translate English sentences into Japanese then compare with the answer key.  Very useful.  I don't think it was intended to do the JSPEC exercises using the spreadsheet alone.
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#8
(2018-01-02, 5:27 am)phil321 Wrote: I'm working through JSPEC too.  I read the chapter then do the exercises--which are all translate English sentences into Japanese then compare with the answer key.  Very useful.  I don't think it was intended to do the JSPEC exercises using the spreadsheet alone.
Right, I read the chapter and do the exercises first, before I look at that section from the spreadsheet.

The thing is, even doing the exercises while reading the book (so you know for sure which pattern is wanted) they had to make other decisions about the answer sentences. Sometimes they show more than one option, but it would get really cluttered if they tried to show all the options all the time. If I answer something different, I don't always know whether it was wrong or whether I have a different valid answer.
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#9
(2018-01-02, 2:16 am)m8719705030 Wrote: What do you mean exactly by "practice production"?
words? sentences? grammar? set content? your own thoughts? speed focused? accuracy focused? Speaking? writing?
situation based? genre based?

These are all good questions. Anything that would help me write grammatically. Right now, I'm thinking standard English sentence patterns, how you would express them in Japanese. But I may be wrong/naive on this, so I'm open to all suggestions.
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#10
(2018-01-02, 11:09 pm)cmertb Wrote: Right now, I'm thinking standard English sentence patterns, how you would express them in Japanese. But I may be wrong/naive on this, so I'm open to all suggestions.
English sentence patterns don't map very well into Japanese. The JSPEC book discusses common sentence patterns found in Japanese, and the English translations are sort of coded to point to which Japanese pattern they're talking about.
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#11
(2018-01-03, 2:13 pm)HelenF Wrote:
(2018-01-02, 11:09 pm)cmertb Wrote: Right now, I'm thinking standard English sentence patterns, how you would express them in Japanese. But I may be wrong/naive on this, so I'm open to all suggestions.
English sentence patterns don't map very well into Japanese. The JSPEC book discusses common sentence patterns found in Japanese, and the English translations are sort of coded to point to which Japanese pattern they're talking about.

That's a problem only if you do the same sentences in both directions. What I think I need is a list of common English sentence patterns (since that's what would pop into my mind as I try to write), and how the same idea would be expressed in natural grammatically correct Japanese. JSPEC covers the other side, the common Japanese sentence patterns, which would help when I'm thinking directly in Japanese.

I'd like to believe that doing both of these memorization exercises would take me a long way toward developing writing skills (plus a lot of reading).
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#12
Here's another book with English-to-Japanese translation exercises, including an answer key at the back:

Colloquial Japanese by Motoko Hamamura.  (Note:  you MUST get the 1981 edition for the English-to-Japanese translation exercises).  You can buy this book very cheap.  Here is a link:

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchR...y=17&sts=t
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#13
I'm not sure if there is already resources out there with these kind of things, but if you want to make some of you own activities to focus on grammar accuracy then, you might try:
a "disappearing sentence" deck. basically a progressively harder cloze deletion task. where you start with all of the example sentence you want to target, and slowly remove more and more words and try to recall it correctly.
This is an interesting variation that removes specific grammatical parts of the sentence each time. (ESL) https://eltplanning.com/tag/disappearing-dialogue/
Or you could try an information transfer activity. That is, don't go from an English sentence into Japanese, instead go from information encoded in a non-sentency kind of way.. It is important to start with good examples sentences to base your output on.
e.g
receipts -> sentence describing past tense actions and prices.
Family tree -> sentence describing family
map -> sentences for giving directions.
And vice versa, from example sentences into encoded info..
These kind of activities are good for reinforcing the meaning of what you are practicing.
Something like the picture sentences here, but on one side of the card would be the picture and the other would be the sentence. 
or combining pictures of receipts with 
shopping dialog.
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#14
phil321, m8719705030 : thanks for the suggestions! I'll give these a try once I resign myself to doing more work than I expected simply creating the decks.
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