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Japanese Learner Stereotypes

#26
(2017-07-31, 4:46 am)Zgarbas Wrote: You know you don't need a reason to study a language, right? Hell, just say because you like it! No one really asks me that, so maybe it's yor friend group that's a bit off?
I did find that when I was studying Japanese in group classes that it was one of those self-introduction session type questions, so having a canned answer that didn't sound too weird was kind of helpful.

(On the other hand, given what a mammoth effort it is to persevere with learning a language, I suspect pretty much everybody does have reasons of some kind, even if they're not something they feel like talking about. Enjoying the process is a reason too :-))
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#27
(2017-07-31, 4:46 am)Zgarbas Wrote: You know you don't need a reason to study a language, right? Hell, just say because you like it! No one really asks me that, so maybe it's yor friend group that's a bit off?

You can study a language for absolutely whatever reason you want to, don't worry about what other people say. A lot of the stereotypes are there because they try *too hard* not because they just happened to be that way Smile. There's a lot of self-consciousness in the Japanese learning community for some reason, I've never really encountered it in any other group.

(And a lot of it is there because of the stereotypes here who make a big deal out of a feat that most people in the world perform at some point...)


I'd add that the attitude that studying another culture and its language is somehow "weird" is itself weird and dangerously jingoistic. Speaking for my own country (US), this attitude leads to a foolish patriotism and false sense of moral superiority compared to other countries. Most people here don't know a second language to any depth, which is a luxury they have because they have the accident of having been born speaking English at a time when it was becoming the world's default lingua franca.

Honestly, learning another language and another culture to a great depth seems to me like a better use of one's mind and time than most of the ways I see people using their free time. It seems like I get more out of this than I would spending eight hours a weekend watching sportsball.

tl;dr: Screw the haters.

</JapaneseLearnersSupportGroupMeeting>
Edited: 2017-07-31, 5:37 pm
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#28
I definitely fit into "The Boring Blogger" (I mean really? Look at my blog, it's so boring/not original at all lol), "The Prepper" but more specifically into 積ん読 kind of prepping.

(2017-07-29, 7:17 pm)NinKenDo Wrote: I would add another, which I used to scorn in my mind a lot, but now have slipped into myself

The Prepper
...
They are always preparing their journey and rarely passing their front gate.

Me in a nutshell! Though I will say that I am more loitering at my front gate hehe Angel
Edited: 2017-08-02, 12:11 pm
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#29
(2017-07-31, 5:36 pm)gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:
(2017-07-31, 4:46 am)Zgarbas Wrote: You know you don't need a reason to study a language, right? Hell, just say because you like it! No one really asks me that, so maybe it's yor friend group that's a bit off?

You can study a language for absolutely whatever reason you want to, don't worry about what other people say. A lot of the stereotypes are there because they try *too hard* not because they just happened to be that way Smile. There's a lot of self-consciousness in the Japanese learning community for some reason, I've never really encountered it in any other group.

(And a lot of it is there because of the stereotypes here who make a big deal out of a feat that most people in the world perform at some point...)


I'd add that the attitude that studying another culture and its language is somehow "weird" is itself weird and dangerously jingoistic. Speaking for my own country (US), this attitude leads to a foolish patriotism and false sense of moral superiority compared to other countries. Most people here don't know a second language to any depth, which is a luxury they have because they have the accident of having been born speaking English at a time when it was becoming the world's default lingua franca.

Honestly, learning another language and another culture to a great depth seems to me like a better use of one's mind and time than most of the ways I see people using their free time. It seems like I get more out of this than I would spending eight hours a weekend watching sportsball.

tl;dr: Screw the haters.

</JapaneseLearnersSupportGroupMeeting>

Ever since I started learning Japanese I've been into accomplishing thing/being efficient so when I see people using their free time on their commute on their train playing some game on an ipad I just cannot imagine how you can do that for x hours without going crazy lol. and I don't feel any shame using anki because I can imagine some people's response might be "you do flashcards in your time. how boring" while I think "you play repetitive games in free time. how boring." (i feel like most of the games on ipad are of a repetitive and simplistic nature just because you're limited to pressing and swiping)
Edited: 2017-08-02, 5:48 pm
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#30
I found it funny. Probably because I don't fall into any of the categories.

I would fall into the blogger category (I would like to start a blog about learning Japanese, and I feel like I would have some helpful things to say), it's just that I'm lazy, so it'll never happen.

I'm also an idol fanboy (and I'm not alone, there are lots of us), so maybe that could be a category.
Edited: 2017-08-02, 6:52 pm
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#31
(2017-08-02, 5:46 pm)howtwosavealif3 Wrote: Ever since I started learning Japanese I've been into accomplishing thing/being efficient so when I see people using their free time on their commute on their train playing some game on an ipad I just cannot imagine how you can do that for x hours without going crazy lol. and I don't feel any shame using anki  because I can imagine some people's response might be "you do flashcards in your time. how boring" while I think "you play repetitive games in free time. how boring." (i feel like most of the games on ipad are of a repetitive and simplistic nature just because you're limited to pressing and swiping)
I actually totally feel you on this. I've never really played the sorta intentionally simplistic/mindless mobile games but I see people play them all the time on the subway. I on the other hand would just be grinding out hundreds of Anki reps instead. If there's a block of time that allows for me to multi-task something mindlessly I'm always gonna choose Anki. I have a much lower load than I used to though so it'd be nice to get accustomed to multitasking reading with other things.
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#32
(2017-08-02, 5:46 pm)howtwosavealif3 Wrote: Ever since I started learning Japanese I've been into accomplishing thing/being efficient so when I see people using their free time on their commute on their train playing some game on an ipad I just cannot imagine how you can do that for x hours without going crazy lol. and I don't feel any shame using anki  because I can imagine some people's response might be "you do flashcards in your time. how boring" while I think "you play repetitive games in free time. how boring." (i feel like most of the games on ipad are of a repetitive and simplistic nature just because you're limited to pressing and swiping)

@howtwosavealif3
I've been away from this forum for quite some time and only recently came back to somehow be part of forum.koohii.com again. (Then again, who knows how long this will last?  Undecided ). I remember your posts from like years ago so after reading this one I felt like congratulating you on your progress in... English.

頑張ってねー  Wink
Edited: 2017-08-02, 8:26 pm
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#33
Howtosavealif3 is actually the original reason I came to koohii, after he called me a whining weeb and told me to go here on another forum! Still grateful.

Welcome back, Inny Jan!
Edited: 2017-08-03, 1:46 am
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#34
this thread is actually quite funny.

i agree with Zgarbas that you don't need a reason to study language at all... it's just like having an interest in any other academic discipline.
problem is there are so many weirdos studying japanese that most people assume it couldn't possible be for pure academic interest, and instead you're secretly a huge lolita eroge fan or whatever.

after moving on to a second L2 (chinese), I noticed that I stopped getting weird questions about studying japanese and people just assume i'm a wizard.
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#35
Also to add: when you tell people that you're learning Japanese, they assume you're already fluent. 何?  Dodgy

It always irks me because I always say "learning" not "fluent". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Does anyone have people assuming fluency when you specifically tell them you're "learning" Japanese?
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#36
@RawrPk
I've gotten something like that several times; like "Oh, say something in Japanese" or something. Sure, I could say whatever I'd like, correct or not, and it'd satisfy them, but really...

@dtcamero
FLAT IS JUSTICE!!!
... Wait, I meant to say "I love Japanese literature."

It's never been assumed I'm into lolis, but I have gotten jokes that I study Japanese through hentai... Though I can neither confirm nor deny this to be the case.

I've also had people assume I watch all the popular shounen anime; I just chalk that up to people being excited when they meet someone that potentially likes the same things they do. I mean, they're not wrong: I do watch anime, but I read a lot more manga, so I'm not quite as into it as they are.
And I burned out on Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Fairy Tail, etc. a long time ago.
Edited: 2017-08-03, 2:43 pm
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#37
(2017-08-03, 2:28 pm)RawrPk Wrote: Also to add: when you tell people that you're learning Japanese, they assume you're already fluent. 何?  Dodgy

It always irks me because I always say "learning" not "fluent". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Does anyone have people assuming fluency when you specifically tell them you're "learning" Japanese?

Yup. Like no no, you've got it all wrong. Then they're like "okay but just say hi!" so you're like "こんにちは" and they're like "amazing i could never do that too hard Sad"
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#38
(2017-08-02, 5:46 pm)howtwosavealif3 Wrote:
(2017-07-31, 5:36 pm)gaiaslastlaugh Wrote:
(2017-07-31, 4:46 am)Zgarbas Wrote: You know you don't need a reason to study a language, right? Hell, just say because you like it! No one really asks me that, so maybe it's yor friend group that's a bit off?

You can study a language for absolutely whatever reason you want to, don't worry about what other people say. A lot of the stereotypes are there because they try *too hard* not because they just happened to be that way Smile. There's a lot of self-consciousness in the Japanese learning community for some reason, I've never really encountered it in any other group.

(And a lot of it is there because of the stereotypes here who make a big deal out of a feat that most people in the world perform at some point...)


I'd add that the attitude that studying another culture and its language is somehow "weird" is itself weird and dangerously jingoistic. Speaking for my own country (US), this attitude leads to a foolish patriotism and false sense of moral superiority compared to other countries. Most people here don't know a second language to any depth, which is a luxury they have because they have the accident of having been born speaking English at a time when it was becoming the world's default lingua franca.

Honestly, learning another language and another culture to a great depth seems to me like a better use of one's mind and time than most of the ways I see people using their free time. It seems like I get more out of this than I would spending eight hours a weekend watching sportsball.

tl;dr: Screw the haters.

</JapaneseLearnersSupportGroupMeeting>

Ever since I started learning Japanese I've been into accomplishing thing/being efficient so when I see people using their free time on their commute on their train playing some game on an ipad I just cannot imagine how you can do that for x hours without going crazy lol. and I don't feel any shame using anki  because I can imagine some people's response might be "you do flashcards in your time. how boring" while I think "you play repetitive games in free time. how boring." (i feel like most of the games on ipad are of a repetitive and simplistic nature just because you're limited to pressing and swiping)

同感。

What's more frustrating is that other people see this and decry how useless and time-wasting cell phones and the Internet are. You can do AMAZING things these days with the technology we have - e.g., drill vocabulary, read news and watch tv from another country, and have bilingual conversations with people living on the other side of the world. It's not technology's fault that people choose instead to use it to play Candy Crush.
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#39
(2017-08-03, 2:28 pm)RawrPk Wrote: Also to add: when you tell people that you're learning Japanese, they assume you're already fluent. 何?  Dodgy

It always irks me because I always say "learning" not "fluent". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Does anyone have people assuming fluency when you specifically tell them you're "learning" Japanese?

That's really something that doesn't matter to most languages (unless it's for your resume), no idea why Japanese learners care so much about the distinction. The only time I say I'm fluent in English is when I apply for a job. Usually you'd just say you speak the language, or 'speak some'. If anyone randomly talks about being fluent in any language I assume they're not, if someone says they're learning a language I assume they take classes and probably can't speak it at all.
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#40
(2017-08-03, 5:21 pm)Zgarbas Wrote: That's really something that doesn't matter to most languages (unless it's for your resume), no idea why Japanese learners care so much about the distinction. The only time I say I'm fluent in English is when I apply for a job. Usually you'd just say you speak the language, or 'speak some'. If anyone randomly talks about being fluent in any language I assume they're not, if someone says they're learning a language I assume they take classes and probably can't speak it at all.

Yeah I typically avoid using the word fluent/fluency at all when describing myself. The exact notion of fluency is just not consistent across different people anyway so more often than not all it tells me is how much of an ego someone has when they describe themselves as fluent as opposed to actually informing me about ability. But honestly as you're kind-of saying it's nit-picky and not terribly important outside of resume.

As far as talking with other Japanese learners, all you gotta do is whip out the 「日本語が上手ですね」. How receiving person reacts to this statement will tell you everything about how 上手 they really are  Wink
Edited: 2017-08-03, 5:30 pm
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#41
(2017-08-02, 10:17 pm)Zgarbas Wrote: Howtosavealif3 is actually the original reason I came to koohii, after he called me a whining weeb and told me to go here on another forum! Still grateful.

Welcome back, Inny Jan!

And then we convinced you to apply for MEXT and now look what happened, you hate your life (jk) :p.

EDIT:

(2017-08-03, 5:30 pm)karageko Wrote: As far as talking with other Japanese learners, all you gotta do is whip out the 「日本語が上手ですね」. How receiving person reacts to this statement will tell you everything about how 上手 they really are Wink
True both at language skill level but also how much they've properly absorbed cultural ticks for Japanese.
Edited: 2017-08-03, 7:05 pm
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#42
(2017-08-03, 11:30 am)dtcamero Wrote: i agree with Zgarbas that you don't need a reason to study language at all... it's just like having an interest in any other academic discipline.
problem is there are so many weirdos studying japanese that most people assume it couldn't possible be for pure academic interest, and instead you're secretly a huge lolita eroge fan or whatever.

I mean I only signed up on this forum to meet other lolita eroge lovers... maybe I made a mistake.
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#43
(2017-08-03, 7:01 pm)vix86 Wrote:
(2017-08-02, 10:17 pm)Zgarbas Wrote: Howtosavealif3 is actually the original reason I came to koohii, after he called me a whining weeb and told me to go here on another forum! Still grateful.

Welcome back, Inny Jan!

And then we convinced you to apply for MEXT and now look what happened, you hate your life (jk) :p.

EDIT:

I know and I haven't forgotten (thank you so much for telling me about it). This forum literally changed my life for the better, I'm really glad life led me to it.
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#44
The Sunk Cost Denier
Your L2, or language acquisition in general, no longer interests you, but after making 10,000+ Anki cards and immersing for 10,000+ hours you can't stop because the thought of  abandoning all that work that went towards something so specific is just too much to bear. No, it's best to miserably slog on forever rather than change course now. You're gonna carry that weight.

The Smeagol
You took AJATT's advice literally and locked yourself in your room for 12+ months. Your walls are covered in pages torn from an L2 newspaper you grabbed at an ethnic supermarket. Your social network is gone and your family worries that you've become mentally ill. But we hates them, they don't know, they don't see that you've got your L2, precious...

The Forum Rat
You have spent more time on forums about learning your L2 than actually learning your L2. Bonus points if you have more forum posts than Anki reps.
Edited: 2017-08-04, 11:49 am
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#45
(2017-08-04, 11:26 am)mattimus Wrote: The Sunk Cost Denier
Your L2, or language acquisition in general, no longer interests you, but after making 10,000+ Anki cards and immersing for 10,000+ hours you can't stop because the thought of  abandoning all that work that went towards something so specific is just too much to bear. No, it's best to miserably slog on forever rather than change course now. You're gonna carry that weight.

This one describes me the closest actually; although I have to say I've never really enjoyed language acquisition in and of itself ever. All three of your contributions are excellent.
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#46
(2017-08-04, 11:31 am)karageko Wrote:
(2017-08-04, 11:26 am)mattimus Wrote: The Sunk Cost Denier
Your L2, or language acquisition in general, no longer interests you, but after making 10,000+ Anki cards and immersing for 10,000+ hours you can't stop because the thought of  abandoning all that work that went towards something so specific is just too much to bear. No, it's best to miserably slog on forever rather than change course now. You're gonna carry that weight.

This one describes me the closest actually; although I have to say I've never really enjoyed language acquisition in and of itself ever. All three of your contributions are excellent.

Thanks. One more:

The Worst-Case Scenario
You did it! You got really, really, ridiculously good at your L2, packed your things and moved to its homeland to start the life you were truly meant to live! But... only now do you realize that you don't actually like the culture you've spent so much time preparing to join. Oh well, it's never too late to become an alcoholic.
Edited: 2017-08-04, 11:34 am
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#47
I lol'd
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#48
Redacted
Edited: 2017-09-28, 10:36 pm
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#49
Fluent in 18 Years

Bought into AJATT's system, achieved some early gains (primarily Heisig), then continued study makes you realize AJATT's claims were wildly optimistic best-case scenarios. A cousin of Sunk Cost Denier.
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#50
I guess I'm the Anki Addict / Sunk Cost Denier with a splash of Treadmill Marathoner. Perhaps if things go well one day I'll graduate to The Worst-Case Scenario.
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