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Japanese Language Study Log: mintou

#1
徘徊皆様へ
On the 16th of July, 2017 I reached a minor milestone of 5,000 words with my Anki vocab deck, and so decided to create some sort of study log for progression monitoring.


閲歴・脱線
For a bit of background, I've been on and off studying for the past three years. In that time I've read a few dozen volumes of manga, bits and pieces of other things here and there online, watched a lot of mostly English subtitled anime, and pecked at a few introductory Japanese grammar guides. Turns out frequent stretches of months without reading or revision means a lot of mostly forgotten things: 徒労に終わる。

Short Term Aims and goals:
※ read more while progressively having to look up less
※ read through entire backlog

Long term Aims and goals:
※ (´・ω・`)

Here is an Anki visualisation of where I am at with consistent study, if you could call it that. I use a self made vocabulary deck but for reference it is similar to the Core10k deck, only with more words and kanji coverage.

Here is a spreadsheet covering the mined words aspect of the vocab deck. All cards are suspended to make way for mined words, then set back to their normal ordering when there are no new mined words waiting to be imported, which has been fairly often since I've been slack.


Study:
As of this post, my "study" consists of reviewing/adding vocabulary with Anki on a daily basis, and reading. Among other things, manga was the underlying reason for deciding to start learning Japanese and so at the moment, it is also my main interest and reading.

A list of what I've read AND mined from, since everything read in the past may as well have been in English, given how much of the Japanese was forgotten over time:

よつばと! (volumes 1~13) - by あずまきよひこ
ゆるゆり (volumes 1~15) - by なもり
大室家 (volumes 1~2) - by なもり
三ツ星カラーズ (volumes 1~3) - by カツヲ
ひとりぼっちの○○生活 (volumes 1~3) - by カツヲ

Currently reading:
となりの吸血鬼さん - by 甘党


Since this is a progress log I'll try to stick with monthly updates.




[Image: gjDUUCH.jpg]
かわいいは、正義
Edited: 2017-07-18, 2:42 am
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#2
Welcome mintou!

PSA from your friendly forum admin: add https:// prefix for image to embed in the post.
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#3
(2017-07-17, 5:10 pm)ファブリス Wrote: Welcome mintou!

PSA from your friendly forum admin: add https://  prefix for image to embed in the post.

Thanks for the PSA and welcome, ファブリス。
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JapanesePod101
#4
Kanji:
Since the previous post I've added individual kanji study to the daily Anki routine.

So far 21 days into it so it's too early to see if it is helpful or not. It was set to introduce 15 new kanji a day but I've decided to up that to 20 new kanji a day. The approach to this kanji study is recognising the character and recalling readings. This deck is only focused on 常用 readings but it will eventually start to introduce non-常用 kanji into the mix, so I'll have figure something out at that point.

Here is an example of this approach:
[Image: rrdP5KR.png]

Vocab:
A little while ago 6k vocab was reached but I've decided to stop adding new words and continue doing reviews till they settle down a bit. It's around the 430~ cards to review a day for vocab but I'd like to wait till it drops closer to 300 reviews before adding new words.

According to Anki there are 6008 words covering 2122 kanji.

What was read since last time:

三ツ星カラーズ (volume 4) - by カツヲ
GA-芸術科アートデザインクラス (volume 1) - by きゆづきさとこ
苺ましまろ (volumes 1~7) - by ばらスィー

Currently reading:
- by ソウマトウ


All in all a rather terrible month but by the end of the current new 30 day period at least I'll probably be back to adding new words to the daily vocab grind.
Edited: 2017-08-17, 4:30 pm
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#5
Learning readings in isolation is such a horrible idea...
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#6
(2017-08-17, 9:30 pm)Inny Jan Wrote: Learning readings in isolation is such a horrible idea...
Yes, people do say that.

How much Japanese have you learned since joining this site in 2010?
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#7
(2017-08-17, 11:24 pm)mintou Wrote:
(2017-08-17, 9:30 pm)Inny Jan Wrote: Learning readings in isolation is such a horrible idea...
Yes, people do say that.

How much Japanese have you learned since joining this site in 2010?

For the comments related to structuring your knowledge (i.e. your flashcards) my level of Japanese is irrelevant. Since you are willing to show off how your cards are put together, I feel free to comment on those. You may take something from these comments or ignore them all together, I don't care.

There are couple of problems with the card you have shown.

1. Readings. Interenet is full of stories on how learning readings in isolation is far from optimal so I don't want to repeat the argument against here. The evidence that I read made perfect sense so I encourage you to read why that idea is bad.

2. Volume. My materials for studying kanji (Kanji in Context),  give only two readings for 気, ki as in 元気 and ke as in 人気. For some reason, the authors of this publication decided that iki is not a reading worth teaching.

3. What are you testing. This comment touches on the previous one in a sense that it is not clear from your card what is it that you want to be your answer when you are presented with the Front. Is it onyomi? Is it kunyomi? Is it meaning (which in itself is a debatable point)? Is it how character is written? If the answer is all of that, then I suggest you to visit the website for Supermemo and read articles on how your flashcards should structured. (I can't be bothered to give you a direct link, as I'm writing all this on my mobile).
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#8
(2017-08-18, 9:46 am)Inny Jan Wrote: [snip]

How much Japanese have you learned since joining this site in 2010?
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#9
(2017-08-20, 10:02 am)mintou Wrote:
(2017-08-18, 9:46 am)Inny Jan Wrote: [snip]

How much Japanese have you learned since joining this site in 2010?

As much that I lived and worked in Japan, am married to a Japanese national and aced N1 years ago... do you believe me? (Hint, if I were you, I wouldn't...)
Edited: 2017-08-20, 10:28 am
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#10
(2017-08-20, 10:23 am)Inny Jan Wrote: [snip]

That your last question was "What are you testing." instead of the very first question tells me that you are someone who cares more about vomiting out an opinion instead of learning enough about the context enough to ask educated questions. I wanted to see if your arrogance was justified and it is not.

The half cooked pedagogical narratives from Internet forum regulars who lack the empathy to engage in honest dialogue is a waste of time. This study log will return to a monthly update basis.
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#11
(2017-08-20, 12:05 pm)mintou Wrote:
(2017-08-20, 10:23 am)Inny Jan Wrote: [snip]

That your last question was "What are you testing." instead of the very first question tells me that you are someone who cares more about vomiting out an opinion instead of learning enough about the context enough to ask educated questions. I wanted to see if your arrogance was justified and it is not.

The half cooked pedagogical narratives from Internet forum regulars who lack the empathy to engage in honest dialogue is a waste of time. This study log will return to a monthly update basis.

[never mind]

Good luck with your studies.
Edited: 2017-08-20, 5:25 pm
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#12
I don't know about other people but I've studied onyomi in isolation and it was a lifesaver for me. I tried to learn them in context while learning new words and this lead me to a burnout. Other people experience will probably differ but anyway this is my experience. hope this helps
Edited: 2017-08-20, 5:35 pm
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#13
There's this whole debate about whether it makes sense to study the readings. In a way it's a waste of time to study them by themselves, but I feel like I at least have to know one reading in order to be able to refer to the kanji, even if only in my head. If I look at it outside of the context of a word, I still want it to make a sound in my head. And not an English one.
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#14
Study Log Update 3


Kanji:

I've continued the kanji study mentioned in the previous update, last month. One change with it is that I've decided to drop the 訓読み aspect of reviews and only recall 音読み. It has made the review process much faster, which is an acceptable trade off.  

The kanji has now had 50 days review, with 561 mature and 389 learning kanji cards. There have been many instances while reading and reviewing where this 音読み knowledge has been helpful. While it is only anecdotal, it is enough to want to continue using the deck.


Vocab:
11 days ago I started adding new words to the review pile and have returned to a rate of 50 new words a day.

According to Anki there are now 6558 words covering 2221 total unique kanji. 5443 of 6558 words are currently mature.

What was read since last time:

(volumes 1~3)- by ソウマトウ
ガヴリールドロップアウト (volumes 1~4) - by うかみ
ニョロ子の生放送! (volumes 1~2) - by むく

Currently reading:
ご注文はうさぎですか? (up to volume 4) - by Koi

The current volume of manga I'm reading is the 61st volume since I started mining unknown words and actively committing them to memory via Anki. It's really hard to tell how much it as helped; I'm still well and truly bucked without a dictionary. The most frustrating aspect is that the whole process of looking up words, searching further online for references at times, mining them, etc. is time consuming and a reminder of just how little of the language I know.

Maybe by the 100th volume I will have gained enough general familiarity with the most common words used in Japanese that looking up things will be more for uncommon words and phrases.


It's good to be back to adding new words again and chipping away at the backlog of mined words but it wasn't an overall productive month of reading. I set my computer up for reading/hooking visual novels but I'm not sure how much time is going to be invested in visual novels, as I'm not not a huge fan of reading lengthy texts for hours on a computer monitor. But who knows, I may become attached to the medium.
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#15
(2017-08-20, 8:55 pm)Furikake Wrote: There's this whole debate about whether it makes sense to study the readings. In a way it's a waste of time to study them by themselves, but I feel like I at least have to know one reading in order to be able to refer to the kanji, even if only in my head. If I look at it outside of the context of a word, I still want it to make a sound in my head. And not an English one.

Personally I found it useful to learn the RTK2 signal primitives for the ON-yomi  (pure, semi-pure, mixed).  In total there are only around 350 of them in RTK2 so it's certainly doable and worthwhile.
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#16
Study Log Update 4
Switching updates to the start of the month~ish.

Not all that much has changed, to be honest. 
Reached 7,500/2665 vocab/kanji in my vocab deck and 1400 kanji in my kanji deck, in Anki, which is decent enough.
Haven't been reading as much as I could have, which is a bit of a let down. In a bit of a lull. Progressing is occurring, sure, but I still feel like a complete beginner with the language.

What was read since last time:
ご注文はうさぎですか? (volume 5) - by Koi

Currently reading:
スケッチブック (up to volume 9) - by 小箱とたん
絶対☆霊域 (up to volume 3) - by 吉辺あくろ


Thus far I've read and mined vocab from 73 volumes. At some point I'm probably going to spilt focus between manga and light novels. Wouldn't mind checking out 東京レイヴンズ and 涼宮ハルヒ eventually.
Edited: 2017-10-02, 1:13 am
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