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Sanseido down

#26
Looks like an interesting idea, but all of the download links are giving me "Not Found" errors.
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#27
(2017-04-25, 4:30 pm)rich_f Wrote: Looks like an interesting idea, but all of the download links are giving me "Not Found" errors.

Oops, I'm sorry.  I gave the link for the english page which doesn't work for some reason.  The Japanese page works.
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#28
Returning to the original topic. Just reporting that the Sanseido function on Rikaisama is now operational again!

With Rikaisama/Sanseido back in action, at least for the present, I thought It might be helpful to FooSoftさん to tell him whether we would be switching back to RIkaisama and if so why.

In my case I will and for one simple reason. Sanseido. I like the brevity of the definitions. With Yomichan currently I get a big definition with a lot of dictionary-esque text plus bits of English I don't want (even using the Japanese EPwing dictionary exclusively).

As it happens I just explained in this thread why I need very concise definitions.

The problem is the dictionary, not the plugin, so if it were possible for Yomichan to have the same arrangement with Sanseido that Rikai has, it would be solved.

In addition to this of course, the means of obtaining an EPwing Japanese dictionary are complex, dubious (obviously I can't recommend it on KawaJapa for example), and may not last. It also doesn't work on 32-bit systems.

I don't know if it is possible, but I will open an issue on GitHub because to me it is not quite make-or-break but certainly enough to make me return to Rikai.
Edited: 2017-04-26, 12:04 pm
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JapanesePod101
#29
Thanks for updating. I've been checking sanseido.net with disheartening results for the past few days. I was scared that it'd be gone forever. Like I said before riKAISAMA enables me to generate anki cards efficiently and i format them however i want by using excel since I love my cloze deletion format. I'm not too concerned about being monolingual 100% of the time since anki is just a tool and I spend a majority of my time doing stuff in Japanese that i find enjoyable. I'm of the opinion that ultimately you're going to have to see the word in multiple contexts in the wild to fully grasp the word regardless of whether i read the japanese definition or the english definition in my anki deck.
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#30
Just to say I agree with everything you say. I'm a little more concerned about English definitions than you, but I don't exclude them entirely, pretty much for the reasons you say. Anki is just a tool and when you say "I'm of the opinion that ultimately you're going to have to see the word in multiple contexts in the wild to fully grasp the word" heehee - I'm saying that all the time.

So since Anki is just a tool I allow an English definition where it will cut short a lengthy process - because Anki isn't where I want to do my real learning and the time is better spent in actual Japanese material.

However I prefer not to have English definitions hanging about when I don't actually need them (and yes of course I can delete them. It's just that the EPwing definitions require quite a bit of doctoring, and again the time is better spent elsewhere).

I do think it is better to associate Japanese words with Japanese definitions as far as possible.

But you are 100% right that dictionary definitions are never anything more than a starting-point (or sometimes a reminder). One absolutely cannot "know a word" from a dictionary definition or from a million Anki repetitions.

Words are friends. Dictionaries introduce us to them and give us the chance to say yoroshiku. Anki can help us fix their pretty names and faces in our minds so we don't make any embarrassing faux pas[.

But it is up to us to build a real living relationship with them in all their different moods and contexts - to learn their darling personalities, their emotional weight and coloring, their subtle individual fragrance. And that has nothing to do with dictionaries or Anki.
Edited: 2017-04-26, 7:55 pm
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#31
(2017-04-26, 7:50 pm)CureDolly Wrote: Just to say I agree with everything you say. I'm a little more concerned about English definitions than you, but I don't exclude them entirely, pretty much for the reasons you say. Anki is just a tool and when you say "I'm of the opinion that ultimately you're going to have to see the word in multiple contexts in the wild to fully grasp the word" heehee - I'm saying that all the time.

So since Anki is just a tool I allow an English definition where it will cut short a lengthy process - because Anki isn't where I want to do my real learning and the time is better spent in actual Japanese material.

However I prefer not to have English definitions hanging about when I don't actually need them (and yes of course I can delete them. It's just that the EPwing definitions require quite a bit of doctoring, and again the time is better spent elsewhere).

I do think it is better to associate Japanese words with Japanese definitions as far as possible.

But you are 100% right that dictionary definitions are never anything more than  a starting-point (or sometimes a reminder). One absolutely cannot "know a word" from a dictionary definition or from a million Anki repetitions.

Words are friends. Dictionaries introduce us to them and give us the chance to say yoroshiku. Anki can help us fix their pretty names and faces in our minds so we don't make any embarrassing faux pas[.

But it is up to us to build a real living relationship with them in all their different moods and contexts - to learn their darling personalities, their emotional weight and coloring, their subtle individual fragrance. And that has nothing to do with dictionaries or Anki.

Wow that was really well wrote out. I only mentioned what I wrote because I used to be really into being monolingual all the time and was obsessed with not using the English definition due to the influence of AJTT. However later on I realized that for some words the English definition just works better as in I remember it better or it's more efficient (for example I don't need a long explanation --technically it's a definition but it really is an explanation-- of what a prosecutor/etc/etc does or a longass description of a bush --- for this anki card I realized months later I was reading the definition for a bush lol. I was picturing some strange plant in my head and assuming it was just a specific name of a tree like chrysanthemum is for flowers). There's nothing wrong with taking advantage of my English skills to learn Japanese if it makes sense. Of course I love the Japanese dictionary too because I'm so used to using it AND its definitions are more detailed or make more sense to me but I will admit that I am a native speaker of English and I should take advantage of the ENglish definition when it makes the most sense to do that.
Edited: 2017-04-26, 9:05 pm
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#32
With things like a bush - or various other common objects that can take a paragraph to describe I use a picture. You can drag a picture direct from Google image search into Anki (not thumbnail but the bigger picture you get when you click the thumbnail without leaving the search page).

One very good tip about English is to use katakana-ized English in your definitions any time you can. For example

分析 :  アナリシス

This serves a double purpose I would say. In the first place it gives a very streamlined definition of a relatively complex concept based on a word you already know in English and in the second place it helps one to know what katakana-ized English words are actually legitimate usable Japanese.

Of course some people will say that very streamlined definitions don't give the word its full range of meaning and they are correct. But my approach is that Anki isn't there for giving a word its full range of meaning. That is what immersion is for.

Actually that makes "immersion" sound much more utilitarian than it actually is for me. Immersion isn't a tool. Anki is a tool. Immersion is life.

____
EDIT: Of course cards can't always be that simple, and in some cases I just like the Japanese definitions. They can be little works of art I think. In my view the case for English definitions (as opposed to legitimate katakana-ized English, which is always fair game) is just what you suggest - when the concept is clear enough in English but complicated to explain in any language. In these cases
English (or another language one knows) cuts the knot and saves a lot of time. If one is immersing the word will become part of one's Japanese vocabulary soon enough.

Branching and dictionary diving probably are good exercises as the AJATT school says, but I'd rather spend the time on real immersion.

Also my Anki is very audio-based. I don't look at the backs of cards unless I need to (eg pictures ) - I listen to them and I never use English audio. So where I use an English definition I will also use a sample sentence which is generally enough to jog my memory without having to go back to the definition.
Edited: 2017-04-26, 10:28 pm
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#33
The thing with my card for bush was that I never looked up the English word until one day while I was doing my reviews I decided to do google image so I just assumed it was the name of a specific plant until I searched it. I edited with a picture and the English the word because I don't care to read a long definition or description of a bush . I was really into monolingual at the time and I understood the Japanese definition so I didn't even think to do google image or look up the English definition... but me understanding the definition/description doesn't mean I actually pictured a bush lol. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.

With the rikaisama plugin I can effortlessly switch between the languages by pressing the letter O so I love that plugin

If I have katakana English in my definition I usually change it to English cause it's easier to read (distinct spelling and it stands out among the Japanese text) and I don't want that in my anki deck lol. Just a personal preference. Like I said anki is my tool but my main source of Japanese is immersion so I shall get my share of bastardized English from that
Edited: 2017-04-26, 11:36 pm
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#34
I don't really think of English loan-words as bastardized English any more than I think of restaurant or genre as bastardized French. But I know what you mean. I don't put those words into Anki as primary words because I will know their meaning when I see them anyway.

Actually I am a bit conservative and have a tendency to italicize words like genre, (and wince at "nuanced"), but I guess that's rather like パン still being in katakana even though it entered the language in, I think, the 16th century.

If I have a katakana word in the definition and I think it is adequate I will tend to make that the audio part and only look at the rest of the definition if I need to. Anki takes up too much time as it is! So I guess we think fairly much the same even though we have different strategies to make the word stand out.
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#35
so the sanseido dic on rikai-sama isn't working again. does anyone know anything about it?
Edited: 2017-07-18, 8:09 pm
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#36
Sanseido dictionary seems no longer to be available at the old address at sanseido.net though you can still find it at sanseido.biz.

I heard that Rikaisama is no longer being maintained. If this is the case I suspect that what has happened is that no one has redirected it to the new Sanseido location.

I am managing with Yomichan as best I can but for my purposes it isn't as good as Rikai/Sanseido.
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#37
I think I've come up with an alternative or solution depending on the person.

I use rikai-sama by generating the txt in a specific format then paste that into excel and copy a column so I can generate cloze deletion cards.

There is a shared anki plugin that automatically generates japanese definitions from sanseido as long as you have 2 fields


Word - The Japanese word to look up on sanseido


Sanseido - The field to insert the definition into


https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1967553085

So it seems like all I'll have to do is generate a new card type with fields named those things and assign stuff correctly when I import in. I haven't actually tried it yet but it looks like it'll work. i just noticed that it was last updated in 2016 so it may not work...
Edited: 2017-07-24, 5:12 pm
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