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Can I change the order of studying RTK1?

#1
I am writing N4 this July and I want to change the order of my kanji studies to learn&focus on N5 & N4 Kanji, at least for a month ahead. I was a little slow with my Kanji studies up until now because I was more focused on grammar up until this point (I am good at forming sentences now). I am only at 100 Kanji on RTK1 at the moment and I want slow down on grammar now in order to study more Kanji. I wish to priortize and learn first N5 and N4 kanji, if that's possible.

I don't know if any of you would recommend but I wish to stop at #100 and change the order of my RTK1 to JLPT N5/4 level.

I guess that technically it should be possible to filter the RTK1 deck on Anki according to JLPT level (considering they're labeled properly). However, I suspect that the idea of changing the order of learning Kanji would be against the Heisig method and the method would not work. Is that correct?
Edited: 2017-03-29, 2:34 pm
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#2
I purchased a book on Amazon which purports to include all the kanji needed for the N4.  There are around 165 of them.
See my other post where I have a link.
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#3
I think it depends on what level. You can certainly look at (say) just the first 1000 kanji and use basically the Heisig method to study those -- people have done it before (search for threads about RTK Lite); and you could make the set a bit smaller again, there's nothing magical about 1000. But when you get down to a small number like 165, I think it starts to break down because there aren't enough repeated uses of the same primitives, so you lose the bigger picture and the reinforcement from repeating the same primitive in multiple characters.
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#4
(2017-03-29, 2:32 pm)ShotOkan Wrote: I guess that technically it should be possible to filter the RTK1 deck on Anki according to JLPT level (considering they're labeled properly). However, I suspect that the idea of changing the order of learning Kanji would be against the Heisig method and the method would not work. Is that correct?

If you change the order, and are using the Heisig system, it gets really complicated. For each character you want to learn, you have to work backwards and also add all its components, both characters and non-character components. There is an 'RTK Lite' list that did this.  I'm not sure what the base target was. Some JLPT level or some most common kanji or kyouiku kanji (jyouyou is bigger than this list so that can't be it.) Anyway, if this isn't short enough for you, it should at least be a good start for doing a targeted list.

I can't find the original post but the list looks like this (sorry for the formatting).


Some helpful Koohiijin Wrote:Here is a complete and comprehensive list of all the kanji included in RTK Lite.
(1,023 kanji in post #31 + 92 kanji in post #30 = 1,115 kanji total):

1. 一,2.二,3.三,4.四,5.五,6.六,7.七,8.八,9.九,10.十,11.口,12.日,13.月,14.田,15.目,16.古,17. 吾,18.冒,20. 明,23.品,24.呂,26.早,28.世,29.胃,30.旦,35.旧,36.自,37.白,38.百,39.中,40.千,41.舌,42. 升,43.昇,44.丸,45.寸,46.専,47.博 ,48. 占,49.上,50.下,52.朝,54.貝,56.員,57.見,58.児,59.元,60.頁,62.凡,63.負,64.万,65.句 ,66.肌,68.勺,69.的,70.首,71.乙,72. 乱,73.直,74.具,75.真,76.工,77.左,78.右,79.有,83.刀,84.刃,85.切,86.召,87.昭,88.則,89. 副,90.別,91.丁,92.町,93. 可,94.頂,95.子,97.了,98.女,99.好,101.母,102.貫,103.兄,105.小,106.少,107.大,108. 多,109. 夕,111.外,112.名,113.石,114.肖,117.砂,119.光,120.太,121.器,124.省,125.厚,126.奇,127. 川,128.州,129. 順,130.水,131.氷,132.永,133.泉,134.原,135.願,136.泳,143.活,144.消,145.況,146.河,147. 泊,148.湖,149.測,150.土,152.圧,155.圭,156.封,158.寺,159.時,160.均,161.火,162.炎,165. 灯,166.畑,168. 灰,169.点,170.照,171.魚,172.漁,173.里,174.黒,177.量,179.埋,180.同,183.向,185.字,186. 守,187. 完,190.安,
192.寄,
193.富,
194.貯,
195.木,
196.林,
197.森,
205.植,
206.枯,
208.村,
209.相,
210. 机,
211.本,
212.札,
214.案,
215.燥,
216.未,
217.末,
219.味,
220.妹,
223.若,
224.草,
225.苦,
227. 薄,
228.葉,
232.暮,
234.苗,
235.兆,
238.犬,
239.状,
241.然,
244.猫,
245.牛,
246.特,
247.告,
248. 先,
249. 洗,
250.介,
251.界,
252.茶,
253.合,
254.塔,
255.王,
256.玉,
257.宝,
259.現,
262.呈,
263.全,
265. 理,
266. 主,
267.注,
268.柱,
269.金,
272.銅,
274.針,
277.道,
278.導,
281.造,
283.逃,
284.辺,
286.車,
287. 連,
289.輸,
290.前,
291.各,
292.格,
293.略,
294.客,
295.額,

296.夏,
297.処,
298.条,
299.落,
300. 冗,
301. 軍,
303.運,
305.夢,
307.高,
311.亭,
312.京,
313.涼,
314.景,
316.舎,
317.周,
318.週,
319.士,
320. 吉,
323.売,
324.学,
325.覚,
326. 栄,
327.書,
331.敗,
332.枚,
333.故,
334.敬,
335.言,
336.警,
337.計,
341.訓,
343.詰,
344.話,
347. 語,
348.読,
349.調,
350.談,
353.式,
354.試,
356.域,
360.茂,361.成,362.城,366.減,369.浅,370. 止,371. 歩,374.肯,376.歴,377.武,379.正,381.政,382.定,384.走,385.超,387.越,388.是,389.題,391. 建,392. 延,396.衣,398.装,399.裏,402.遠,404.初,405.布,407.幅,408.帽,412.市,413.姉,415.帯,417. 刺,418.制,419.製,420.転,421.芸,422.雨,423.雲,424.曇,427.冬,428.天,429.橋,431.立,432. 泣,433.章,434.競,436.童,439.商,441.適,442.滴,444.匕, 445.北,446.背,447.比,448.昆,449.皆,450.混, 455.旨,456. 脂,458.毎,461.海,462.乞,463.乾,464.腹,465.複,466.欠,467.吹,469.歌,470.軟,471.次,473. 資,479. 音,480.暗,482.識,484.境,485.亡,488.荒,489.望,490.方,492.坊,495.訪,496.放,499.説,500. 鋭, 501.曽,502.増,503.贈,504.東,506.凍,508.廷,510.燃,512.歳,513.県,515.地,516.池,517. 虫,522.独,524.風,525.己,526.起,528.改,529.記,530.包,535.電,541.家,545.場,546.湯,547. 羊,548.美,549.洋,552.達,554. 差,555.着,559.集,561.進,562.雑,564.準,567.確,568.午,569.許,571.権,572.観,573.羽,574. 習,575.翌,576.曜,577.濯,579.困,580.固,581.国,582.団,583.因,585.園,586.回,588.店,589. 庫,590.庭,591.庁,592.床,594.磨,595.心,596.忘,597.忍,598.認,600.志,601.誌,605.思,607. 応,608. 意,609.想,610.息,612.恵,613.恐,615.感,616.憂,618.忙,623.怖,626.憎,627.慣,635.必,637. 手,638.看,640.我,641.義,642.議,645.抱,649.批,650.招,653.打,655.捨,659.指,660.持,666. 損,667.拾,668.担,671. 操,672.接,675.研, 676.戒,677.械,678.鼻,679.刑,680.型,681.才,682.財,683.材,684.存,685.在,686.乃,688. 及,689.吸,691.丈,692.史,693.吏,694.更,695.硬,696.又,697.双,702.奴,703.怒,704.友,705. 抜,706.投,708.設,711.支,712.技,713.枝,717. 軽,722.反,723.坂,724.板,725.返,726.販,727.爪,729.乳,730.浮,731.将,733.採,734.菜,735. 受,736. 授,737.愛,738.払,739.広,740.拡,741.鉱,744.台,746.治,747.始,749.窓,750.去,751.法,752. 会,753.至,754.室,755.到,757.互,759.育,764.流,767.出,768.山,770.岩,771.炭,779.入,780. 込,781. 分,782.貧,784.公,788.谷,789.浴,790.容,791.溶,792.欲,796.賞,797.党,798.堂,799.常,802. 皮,803.波,806.破,807.被,808.残,812.列,815.死,818.耳,819.取,821.最,823.恥,824.職,831. 買,832.置,836.環,838.夫,841.規,842.替,843.賛,845.失,846.鉄,848.臣,850.蔵,851.臓,852. 賢,856.巨,858.力,859.男,860.労,861.募,865.努,867.加,872.協,873.行,874.律,875.復,876. 得,878.徒,879.待,883.彼,884.役,894.程,895.税,897.和,898.移,899.秒,900.秋,902.私,906. 利,911.香,912.季,913.委,919.米,920.粉,922.粒,924.迷,928.奥,929.数,931.類,933.様,934. 求,935.球,936.救,937.竹,938.笑,942.箱,943.筆,944.筒,945.等,946.算,947.答,950.築,951. 人,954.住,955.位,956.仲,957.体,959.件,960.仕,961.他,963.伝,964.仏,965.休,966.仮,969. 信,971.依,972.例,973.個,974.健,975.側,977.停,978.値,980.倒,983.億,990.使,991.便,992. 倍,993.優,995.宿,997.保,1000.付,1001.符,1002.府,1003.任,1004.賃,1005.代,1006. 袋,1007.貸,1008.化,1009.花,1010.貨,1011.傾,1012.何,1013.荷,1016.久,1019.内,1020. 丙,1022.肉,1024.座,1025.卒,1028.以,1029.似,1034.営,1035.善,1036.年,1037.夜,1038. 液,1043. 換,1047.遊,1048.旅,1049.勿,1050.物,1051.易,1054.尼,1055.泥,1058.屋,1060.屈,1061. 掘,1063.居,1065.層,1066. 局,1067.遅,1069.刷,1070.尺,1075.昼,1076.戸,1077.肩,1081.戻,1082.涙,1083.雇,1086. 示,1087. 礼,1089.祝,1090.福,1092.社,1098.禁,1102.祭,1103.察,1105.由,1107.油,1109.宙,1110. 届,1114.押,1117.申,1118.伸,1119.神,1120.捜,1121.果,1122.菓,1123.課,1125.斤,1127. 所,1128. 祈,1129.近,1130.折,1136.断,1137.質,1140.昨,1142.作,1143.雪,1144.録,1146.急,1150. 寝,1151.婦,1152.掃,1153.当,1154.争,1156.事,1159.康,1162.君,1163.群,1168.両,1169. 満,1170.画,1171.歯,1172.曲,1177.斗,1178.料,1179.科,1180.図,1181.用,1183.備,1184. 昔,1186. 借,1189.散,1190.廿,1193.席,1194.度,1195.渡,1200.焼,1202.半,1205.判,1206.券,1207. 巻,1209. 勝,1212.片,1213.版,1217.不,1218.否,1219.杯,1220.矢,1222.族,1223.知,1225.矛,1226. 柔,1227.務,1230. 帰,1231.弓,1232.引,1235.強,1236.弱,1237.沸,1238.費,1239.第,1240.弟,1242.号,1243. 朽,1245.汚,1246. 与,1247.写,1248.身,1251.老,1252.考,1253.孝,1254.教,1256.者,1258.著,1259.署,1260. 暑,1261. 諸,1266.狭,1267.挟,1268.追,1269.師,1271.官,1273.管,1274.父,1275.交,1276.効,1277. 較,1278.校,1279.足,1282.路,1288.骨,1293.過,1296.際,1300.陽,1302.防,1304.院,1308. 降,1309.階,1316.穴,1317.空,1319.突,1320.究,1327.探,1328.深,1329.丘,1331.兵,1333. 糸,1339.線,1343. 練,1344.緒,1345.続,1346.絵,1349.給,1350.絡,1351.結,1352.終,1353.級,1355.紅,1359. 紹,1360.経,1362.約,1363.細,1366.総,1367.綿,1371.緑,1378.幼,1379.後,1381.幾,1382. 機,1383.玄,1384. 畜,1391.系,1392.係,1393.孫,1397.卸,1398.御,1399.服,1400.命,1401.令,1402.零,1403. 齢,1404.冷,1405. 領,1407.勇,1408.通,1409.踊,1410.疑,1414.犯,1415.厄,1416.危,1417.宛,1418.腕,1422. 卵,1423.留,1424. 貿,1425.印,1427.酉,1428.酒,1436.配,1439.尊,1440.豆,1441.頭,1442.短,1443.豊,1445. 喜,1447.皿,1448. 血,1451.盗,1452.温,1458.塩,1459.銀,1461.根,1462.即,1464.節,1465.退,1466.限,1468. 良,1471. 娘,1472.食,1473.飯,1474.飲,1478.館,1484.平,1485.呼,1487.評,1489.希,1490.凶,1491. 胸,1493. 殺,1494.純,1495.鈍,1496.辛,1497.辞,1500.壁,1502.新,1504.親,1505.幸,1507.報,1508. 叫,1510.収,1513.陸,1515.勢,1516.熱,1519.亥,1521.刻,1524.述,1525.術,1526.寒,1531. 毒,1533. 麦,1534.青,1535.精,1537.情,1538.晴,1539.清,1540.静,1541.責,1542.績,1543.積,1546. 表, 1549.契,1550.喫,1551.害,1553.割,1555.生,1556.星,1557.姓,1558.性,1560.産,1564. 拝,1568. 春,1572.実,1573.奉,1575.棒,1577.勤,1578.漢,1580.難,1582.垂,1585.乗,1587.今,1588. 含,1590.念,1593. 予,1595.預,1596.野,1602.西,1603.価,1604.要,1605.腰,1606.票,1608.標,1612.煙,1613. 南,1616. 門,1617.問,1620.間,1621.簡,1622.開,1623.閉,1626.聞,1632.非,1635.悲,1636.罪,1640. 候,1641.決,1642.快,1643.偉,1644.違,1648.干,1650.刊,1651.汗,1652.軒,1653.岸,1656. 宇,1657.余,1658.除,1661.途,1663.塗,1664.束,1665.頼,1669.速,1670.整,1672.険,1673. 検,1675.重,1676.動,1678.働,1679.種,1682.病,1688.疲,1690.痛,1694.医,1695.匹,1696. 区,1699.欧,1702.迎,1703.登,1705.発,1709.療,1711.形,1716.彦,1717.顔,1720.参,1722. 修,1723. 珍,1725.文,1726.対,1729.斉,1731.済,1735.楽,1736.薬,1737.率,1740.央,1741.英,1742. 映,1743. 赤,1745.変,1748.恋,1749.湾,1750.黄,1751.横,1753.色,1754.絶,1757.甘,1765.期,1767. 基,1774.舞,1775.無,1776.組,1779.祖,1781.査,1782.助,1784.畳,1785.並,1786.普,1788. 湿,1792.業,1795.共,1796.供,1797.異,1799.洪,1800.港,1801.暴,1802.爆,1804.選,1805. 殿,1806.井,1807. 囲,1808.耕,1809.亜,1810.悪,1811.円,1812.角,1813.触,1814.解,1815.再,1816.講,1818. 構,1820. 論,1822.輪,1825.編,1826.冊,1828.氏,1829.紙,1830.婚,1831.低,1833.底,1834.民,1835. 眠,1836. 捕,1840.補,1844.郊,1845.部,1846.都,1847.郵,1859.段,1863.司,1864.伺,1865.詞,1868. 舟,1870.航,1871.般,1874.船,1884.来,1885.気,1887.飛,1888.沈,1889.妻,1892.面,1893. 革,1894.靴,1896.声,1897.呉,1899.誤,1900.蒸,1901.承,1903.極,1909.番,1913.毛,1916. 宅,1920. 長,1921.張,1924.髪,1925.展,1928.単,1929.戦,1934.脳,1935.悩,1941.鳥,1942.鳴,1948. 島,1949.暖,1955.偶,1958.隅,1959.逆,1972.免,1974.晩,1975.勉,1976.象,1977.像,1978. 馬,1980. 験,1982.駐,1984.駅,1992.膚,1997.劇,2004.能,2007.演,2010.震,2014.農,2015.濃,2016. 送,2017.関,2018.咲,
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#5
(2017-03-29, 2:32 pm)ShotOkan Wrote: I am writing N4 this July and I want to change the order of my kanji studies to learn&focus on N5 & N4 Kanji, at least for a month ahead. I was a little slow with my Kanji studies up until now because I was more focused on grammar up until this point (I am good at forming sentences now). I am only at 100 Kanji on RTK1 at the moment and I want slow down on grammar now in order to study more Kanji. I wish to priortize and learn first N5 and N4 kanji, if that's possible.

I don't know if any of you would recommend but I wish to stop at #100 and change the order of my RTK1 to JLPT N5/4 level.

I guess that technically it should be possible to filter the RTK1 deck on Anki according to JLPT level (considering they're labeled properly). However, I suspect that the idea of changing the order of learning Kanji would be against the Heisig method and the method would not work. Is that correct?

For what it's worth, this is basically what I did with my studies (I got to about RTK 500 before I switched, but the principle is the same).

You can certainly do this if it works for you. It will not be the most efficient; you will lose the benefit of reviewing all kanji with a similar primitive together in the maximally effective order, and maybe worse, you will not understand why certain primitives are called what they are (because a variation on a primitive often requires learning other versions at the same time, and understanding how they relate to each other, e.g. arrow, quiver, fiesta, parade, march, etc.).

However, if the rewarding-ness of learning useful meanings for a specific level test outweighs efficiency for you, it can work. I used Heisig primitives out of order the whole time I was learning kanji in something closer to JLPT and/or jouyou order, and it worked for me. Now I am going back and learning how to write all the darned things in Heisig order, and a lot of primitives are starting to make sense to me for the first time. To each his own, YMMV, etc etc. Good luck!
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#6
(2017-03-29, 2:32 pm)ShotOkan Wrote: However, I suspect that the idea of changing the order of learning Kanji would be against the Heisig method and the method would not work. Is that correct?
Changing the order is not ideal, but the bigger issue is that the RtK method is meant for westerners who don't know any Japanese, and wish to familiarize themselves with the Kanji before they start learning the language.

RtK helps you associate Kanji with English keywords. It won't teach you how to actually use/read the Kanji, in the context of the Japanese language. In fact, RtK has pretty much nothing to do with the Japanese language. It's not meant to teach you Japanese, it's meant to teach you a set of Chinese characters.

So, doing RtK, in order or out of order, won't help you pass any Japanese proficiency tests. That's not what it's for. It's for making learning Japanese easier...eventually. But it's a long term investment. You won't see any results in a month or two.

In your situation, you're better off looking for some other method for learning the specific Kanji you need...one that builds on the knowledge you already have. Even just finding a list of N4 vocab written in Kanji, putting them into Anki, and then brute force reviewing them, will work better than RtK.
Edited: 2017-03-29, 9:15 pm
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#7
(2017-03-29, 2:56 pm)phil321 Wrote: I purchased a book on Amazon which purports to include all the kanji needed for the N4.  There are around 165 of them.
See my other post where I have a link.

Phil, Do you think it would be good to learn Kanji through pictographs (like on that book you recommended)? Because I will not stick to pictographs on the rest of my learning process after N4 exam.
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#8
(2017-03-30, 8:07 am)ShotOkan Wrote:
(2017-03-29, 2:56 pm)phil321 Wrote: I purchased a book on Amazon which purports to include all the kanji needed for the N4.  There are around 165 of them.
See my other post where I have a link.

Phil, Do you think it would be good to learn Kanji through pictographs (like on that book you recommended)? Because I will not stick to pictographs on the rest of my learning process after N4 exam.

For me, since I already know how to write the 165 kanji and their RTK1 keywords, the purpose of the book is to ensure I know all the required ON and kun readings; I'm not using the book to learn the kanji from scratch.  I finished RTK1 back in 2013.
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#9
This would basically defeat RTK's biggest strength. I see no good reason to do this.
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