The "What's this word/phrase?" thread

(2017-05-17, 2:48 pm)sholum Wrote: If it helps to draw an English comparison:
The old man will be going together with his horse. と is acting like 'with' is in this English sentence, and 二人連れ is acting like 'together'; both of those English words suggest multiple parties, but they are both referring to the same parties in that sentence; same with the Japanese.

Thanks for the English comparison, it was really insightful, it really helped!

(2017-05-17, 3:58 pm)pm215 Wrote: For this kind of forum and as a language learner in general, I think that dropping clauses from your translations is a bit of a bad habit. Ideally you should understand exactly how all the bits of a sentence fit together, and making sure they all appear in the translation performing the same function acts as a check of that. For q&a threads like this it also means that people reading can see when you have got things the wrong way round and also when you haven't. This does tend to result in slightly less-than-natural English occasionally but that's fine here. (There's a bit in Jay Rubin's _Gone Fishing_ where he recommends that students make a habit of carefully translating active verbs in Japanese as active verbs in English for similar reasons -- it makes you keep closer track of who is doing what to whom, which is particularly important in more complex sentences where the existence of an actor (or somebody being stared at) may be implied only by the verb choice, and when passive, causative and giving-and-receiving are in use.)

I hadn't thought about it in that way but I think you're right, besides making the task of others helping me easier, it should also teach me a lot about grammar.

(2017-05-17, 3:58 pm)pm215 Wrote: Generally in Japanese, to connect a noun like ウマ into a sentence you need a particle that attaches it to the head noun or verb in the clause that it's in, and indicates its function. Here that particle is と and as sholum says it's basically indicating "with", as it does in sentences like 彼と一緒に行きました and 藤村さんと会いました. Sometimes the English translation of the verb/noun's meaning will already include or imply that 'with' meaning (we can say "I met with Mr Fujimura" or just "I met Mr Fujimura"), but the particle is  not optional in Japanese in the same way.

PS: the similar-looking Xを2人連れて does mean "me together with 2 X", as in sentences like 大人1人で幼児を2人連れて行きますが、JALホームページで予約できますか.

I think I got it now, thanks for the careful reply!
Edited: 2017-05-17, 7:17 pm

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