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Finished Heisig and core 2000 and now?

#1
I need ideas for my action plan for my future studies:
-yesterday I downloaded core 2k/6k/10k further optimized and I'm experimenting with template;
-I have an active subscription to japanesepod101 and I need to learn how to use it;
-I ordered a grammar book in my native language (italian);
-I ordered "a dictionary of basic japanese grammar"

I still have to learn how to use subs2srs and I need a website where I can found the raws(at least the latest releases) of the manga I follow.

I still don't know how to organize myself. My time has to be divided between
-Hesig reviews (still 30 a day, it will become more manageable);
-Core 2000 reviews (and many sentences have to be demoted because I know the words but I haven't yet learned the kanji);
New sentences from core 6k/10k;
-Sentences I mined (they always get the priority over core since they have an actual context);
-Grammar;
-Listening: anime/japanesePod101/songs (right now by listening to subbed anime I recognise some words and I might try to add some flashcard with subs2srs without breaking whole episode into chunks because it would turn an enjoyment in a chore);
-some native material;

I refer in particular to the more experience learners, how do you organize your time to do this. Consider that I can't commit a lot of time to  japanese because I'm studying engineering and learning programming at the same time so many times I have to choose. I always find time for reviews and to add some card though.
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#2
Since you mentioned having a subscription to Japanesepod101.com, I would recommend focusing most of your attention there, simply because it's a time limited resource unless you intend to keep renewing your subscription.

I wrote an article about my thoughts on their different courses and which ones to focus on to get the most out of it: http://www.nihongonobaka.com/japanesepod...n-reviews/

My personal strategy was as follows:
1. Listen to the full lessons.
2. If anything is unclear, utilize the pdfs and other resources
3. Put a big focus on listening to just the dialog portion of lessons you have already completed. If the dialog is too difficult, utilize the line-by-line audio tool, if it is available in your subscription.
4. Add words/phrases that you find useful to Anki.

This actually gives you a pretty well-rounded focus. You get grammar, new vocabulary and phrases in context, possibly new kanji words, and listening comprehension. Of course, also continue your existing reviews.
Edited: 2017-02-26, 11:32 am
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#3
Sounds like you've got a good plan! That's also good advice re: japanesepod, I should utilize that more myself.

I think my main advice, especially since you have limited time, is to be conservative about how much new stuff you add to anki, but set things up in advance so that you automatically add a few new things every day. I've found that if I have to rely on myself to find time to create new cards and add them to anki, that I only manage to do occasionally, but if I enter a whole bunch of new material at once and then set anki to show me maybe 1-5 new cards a day in any given deck, I can progress more steadily. Slow and steady is the key.
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JapanesePod101
#4
I agree that jpod101 is a good resource, but I don't like the lessons.  I'm not the only one who finds Peter annoying and the lessons have too much English but not enough Japanese.  Instead of listening to the lessons, I would recommend reading/listening to the dialogs with line-by-line audio.  If there's anything you don't understand, look it up in the lesson notes.  Optionally, you could pre-learn vocabulary for each lesson or they also have whole season vocabulary lists.  Personally I pre-learn an entire season's vocabulary at once and reading the dialogs serves as additional review.
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#5
Since you're getting A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar, you might want to give this Memrise Course a try. There's an Anki deck that I used to create this, but there's improvement here both in the vocabulary lists (new words not covered by Core 2k or Tae Kim), adds text-to-speech audio for all sentences, and the 200 grammar entries are sorted to match the Tae Kim grammar study guide.
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#6
(2017-02-27, 1:51 pm)yogert909 Wrote: I agree that jpod101 is a good resource, but I don't like the lessons.  I'm not the only one who finds Peter annoying and the lessons have too much English but not enough Japanese.  Instead of listening to the lessons, I would recommend reading/listening to the dialogs with line-by-line audio.  If there's anything you don't understand, look it up in the lesson notes.  Optionally, you could pre-learn vocabulary for each lesson or they also have whole season vocabulary lists.  Personally I pre-learn an entire season's vocabulary at once and reading the dialogs serves as additional review.

I didn't find Peter that annoying during the lessons, but I didn't find the lessons to be very good. (I wasn't really happy about Peter's characters in the dialogs, I feel like listening to foreigner-accented Japanese isn't very helpful, but I guess it's not harmful either.) I think Peter disappears later on and the representive gaijin is some haafu from hawaii? I forget her name. Also there's like ... many years more more lessons now so who knows.

I listened to a lot of the lessons later because I had downloaded tons of audio but not all the written material. I'm not sure I learned much from the lessons but they were somehow motivating (the illusion of being part of a class maybe?)

Mostly Jpod101 is valuable as a source of graded dialogs with transcripts. Fortunately the dialog transcript is in the lyrics page on the iphone, which is... I forget, I think the 'notes' tag in the mp3 maybe. You can find the transcripts anyway even if you didn't download all the pdfs. Of course while your subscription is active this isn't even a problem.

I think all you really need to do is read the written notes and the transcript and listen to the dialog. Repeat listening to the dialog is good learning practice and most importantly something useful you can do during a commute (or while running or at the gym, if that's your thing.)

Occasionally repeating reading along to the dialog may help improve your reading. You could check out the L-R techniques  for some ideas about how you could sequence your listening and reading if you want to improve your reading. The Jpod resources are actually really good material for this approach.
http://forum.koohii.com/thread-6840.html
http://users.bestweb.net/~siom/martian_m...ssages.htm


Aside from Jpod101, I think it's pretty important to keep steadily working with actual native materials. If you're reading manga, that's a great start. If you're watching anime they should be japanese subbed or unsubbed. Turning the native language subs on for a translation here and there after first making your own attempt at understanding a section is fine, but if you just play the anime with them on you probably won't learn much.

'A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar' is a pretty good resource. What I did with this mostly was use it as a follow-up to the regular dictionary while reading. If I knew and/or looked up the words in a sentence and it still didn't make sense, I looked from grammar structures, auxiliary verbs, and the like that could be looked up in DoBJG. This helped make sense of a lot of things.


As far as time goes, at this stage I would prioritize like,
#1. Reviews; every day. It's very important to keep up on all your reviews. If you once fall behind it can be very discouraging to catch up.
#2. Reading native material; every day that you possibly can. Both for motivation to actually read stuff you enjoy and for exposure to the language as it's actually used instead of textbook examples.
#3. Everything else, in rotation.

Jpod materials. Reading grammar books and or browsing ADoBJG. Adding cards to Anki. Watching/listening to native materials. Mix these in as time allows. Try to keep a rotation so that if you read grammar yesterday you listen to a podcast or watch anime today, etc. You'll never be able to fit everything into one day, at least not if you also have work or school on that same day, so rotation is essential.

Whatever materials you add to your study regimen, try to keep a balance of studying grammar, vocab, kanji, and listening.
If you care about production, then also make sure to mix in speaking and writing. Speaking is easy to time-manage... you'll probably want to set up a weekly call with a tutor or language exchange partner. Writing you can do most anywhere on the net, but of course a lot of people like to use lang8.

Try not to let more than a week pass before adding mined sentence to Anki. It's much more efficient to do them in batches, but if you sit down with a couple months worth of notes to try to add to Anki it's a gigantic chore so try to catch it up weekly or so. Just because you made a note of something doesn't mean it has to become a card either, if it no longer seems so good when you sit down to do it. (At least for me, I found it really easy to copy unknown vocab into a file and in a very short time create lists of 'words to add to Anki' that were really, really long. I learned the hard way that pruning those lists was necessary.)
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#7
Akira00, it seems you are quite on the good track Wink please continue and keep us posted with your progresses.

SomeCallMeChris, great advices!
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#8
(2017-02-27, 7:28 pm)SomeCallMeChris Wrote:
(2017-02-27, 1:51 pm)yogert909 Wrote: I agree that jpod101 is a good resource, but I don't like the lessons.  I'm not the only one who finds Peter annoying and the lessons have too much English but not enough Japanese.  Instead of listening to the lessons, I would recommend reading/listening to the dialogs with line-by-line audio.  If there's anything you don't understand, look it up in the lesson notes.  Optionally, you could pre-learn vocabulary for each lesson or they also have whole season vocabulary lists.  Personally I pre-learn an entire season's vocabulary at once and reading the dialogs serves as additional review.

I didn't find Peter that annoying during the lessons, but I didn't find the lessons to be very good. (I wasn't really happy about Peter's characters in the dialogs, I feel like listening to foreigner-accented Japanese isn't very helpful, but I guess it's not harmful either.) I think Peter disappears later on and the representive gaijin is some haafu from hawaii? I forget her name. Also there's like ... many years more more lessons now so who knows.

I listened to a lot of the lessons later because I had downloaded tons of audio but not all the written material. I'm not sure I learned much from the lessons but they were somehow motivating (the illusion of being part of a class maybe?)

Mostly Jpod101 is valuable as a source of graded dialogs with transcripts. Fortunately the dialog transcript is in the lyrics page on the iphone, which is... I forget, I think the 'notes' tag in the mp3 maybe. You can find the transcripts anyway even if you didn't download all the pdfs. Of course while your subscription is active this isn't even a problem.

I think all you really need to do is read the written notes and the transcript and listen to the dialog. Repeat listening to the dialog is good learning practice and most importantly something useful you can do during a commute (or while running or at the gym, if that's your thing.)

Occasionally repeating reading along to the dialog may help improve your reading. You could check out the L-R techniques  for some ideas about how you could sequence your listening and reading if you want to improve your reading. The Jpod resources are actually really good material for this approach.
http://forum.koohii.com/thread-6840.html
http://users.bestweb.net/~siom/martian_m...ssages.htm


Aside from Jpod101, I think it's pretty important to keep steadily working with actual native materials. If you're reading manga, that's a great start. If you're watching anime they should be japanese subbed or unsubbed. Turning the native language subs on for a translation here and there after first making your own attempt at understanding a section is fine, but if you just play the anime with them on you probably won't learn much.

'A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar' is a pretty good resource. What I did with this mostly was use it as a follow-up to the regular dictionary while reading. If I knew and/or looked up the words in a sentence and it still didn't make sense, I looked from grammar structures, auxiliary verbs, and the like that could be looked up in DoBJG. This helped make sense of a lot of things.


As far as time goes, at this stage I would prioritize like,
#1. Reviews; every day. It's very important to keep up on all your reviews. If you once fall behind it can be very discouraging to catch up.
#2. Reading native material; every day that you possibly can. Both for motivation to actually read stuff you enjoy and for exposure to the language as it's actually used instead of textbook examples.
#3. Everything else, in rotation.

Jpod materials. Reading grammar books and or browsing ADoBJG. Adding cards to Anki. Watching/listening to native materials. Mix these in as time allows. Try to keep a rotation so that if you read grammar yesterday you listen to a podcast or watch anime today, etc. You'll never be able to fit everything into one day, at least not if you also have work or school on that same day, so rotation is essential.

Whatever materials you add to your study regimen, try to keep a balance of studying grammar, vocab, kanji, and listening.
If you care about production, then also make sure to mix in speaking and writing. Speaking is easy to time-manage... you'll probably want to set up a weekly call with a tutor or language exchange partner. Writing you can do most anywhere on the net, but of course a lot of people like to use lang8.

Try not to let more than a week pass before adding mined sentence to Anki. It's much more efficient to do them in batches, but if you sit down with a couple months worth of notes to try to add to Anki it's a gigantic chore so try to catch it up weekly or so. Just because you made a note of something doesn't mean it has to become a card either, if it no longer seems so good when you sit down to do it. (At least for me, I found it really easy to copy unknown vocab into a file and in a very short time create lists of 'words to add to Anki' that were really, really long. I learned the hard way that pruning those lists was necessary.)
japanese subbed or unsubbed is still too much because it would take some two hours to watch a 20 minutes episode and that would really become a chore. Since the fact I like anime is one of the reasons I started in the first place it would take a really long time.
right now I'm thinking of doing the following:
reviews every day(I haven't a really good retention rate for heisig so the reviews are still high but now with kanji in context I'm learning the ones that took me a lot of time)
for core 10000 I'm deleting all the core 2000 sentences I reviewed recently and trying to get as little overlap as possible. I'm keeping some double sentences if I have trouble with kanji or grammar points.
for the remaining ones, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

-adding at least 5/10 core 10000 sentences (I want to prevent my review count to skyrocket but I don't really know how to do it)

either studying some grammar or doing some comprehention (by reading new manga chapters of the manga I follow in japanese or by watching some anime with japanese/english sub(I try to do like 20-30% comprehention an I just watch the reminder so it doesn't become too taxing)
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#9
Akira, instead of the subbed/unsubbed method, why not try to comprehend 20 minutes of Anime. Here's a Memrise course of a Japanese drama, but it can be applied to Anime. Biggest point as you see is creating a vocabulary list that's trimmed of words is basics (no 2k words), and learning in 4 minute chunks. It test is simply "Hear sentence in Japanese" then "Find subtitle in Japanese". The idea is doing this sentence by sentence lets you build comprehension of the episode as a whole. You then can watch it a few more times at spaced intervals (in 1 week, then after 2 weeks, then 4 weeks, etc). Bonus if it has a manga equivalent then reread those as well.

You'll find after a couple of hours of material, your listening and reading ability get better and better.
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#10
Nukemarine - thanks for the link! Zettai Kareshi is perfect ear training for me.
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#11
(2017-03-06, 7:49 pm)Nukemarine Wrote: Akira, instead of the subbed/unsubbed method, why not try to comprehend 20 minutes of Anime. Here's a Memrise course of a Japanese drama, but it can be applied to Anime. Biggest point as you see is creating a vocabulary list that's trimmed of words is basics (no 2k words), and learning in 4 minute chunks. It test is simply "Hear sentence in Japanese" then "Find subtitle in Japanese". The idea is doing this sentence by sentence lets you build comprehension of the episode as a whole. You then can watch it a few more times at spaced intervals (in 1 week, then after 2 weeks, then 4 weeks, etc). Bonus if it has a manga equivalent then reread those as well.

You'll find after a couple of hours of material, your listening and reading ability get better and better.
Thanks for the advice! Howeve I find that there's still a huge gap between my vocabulary and the one in anime/dramas. This seems to be a good way but right now it's a lot more time consuming than grammar and core sentences. Anyway, I made a separate thread about difficulties with reading and listening.

Edited: 2017-03-20, 4:53 pm
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