Japanese Sentence Patterns for Effective Communication.

Index » Group study

 
activeaero Member
From: Mobile-AL Registered: 2008-08-15 Posts: 500

Just wondering if anyone else has mined sentences from this book?  I'm entering a few sections per day into Anki while at work, when I'm not doing TaeKim's guide, and it seems pretty decent so far.  I tried doing a search and didn't seem to find anything on it but I know it's been mentioned before.

Wisher Member
From: Los Angeles Registered: 2008-04-24 Posts: 65

That book is awesome. I carry it with me everywhere I go. I keep jumping around in it and sometimes get nowhere. One of these days I am going to force myself to read it straight through.

The thing I really like about it is that it gives the sentences in the -masu form and the -da  form for the same sentence. That is something I have not seen in any other book.

Wisher

Ryuujin27 Member
Registered: 2006-12-14 Posts: 824

The idea of this book intrigues me. Anyone else use it? Maybe activeaero or Wisher can provide some examples from the book? A chapter run down?

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activeaero Member
From: Mobile-AL Registered: 2008-08-15 Posts: 500

Ryuujin27 wrote:

The idea of this book intrigues me. Anyone else use it? Maybe activeaero or Wisher can provide some examples from the book? A chapter run down?

The book is very bare bones, which I like.  It has 142 sentence patterns, each with a different grammar construction point that is highlighted.  Each section gives a very quick explanation of the grammar point and then provides 3-5 example sentences in Kanji, Romanji and English.   All of the patterns are grouped by chapters:

1.  Identifying and describing people and things.
2.  Describing the existence of animate and inanimate things.
3.  Making comparisons.
4.  Describing actions in the past, present and future.
5.  Actions in progress, completed, successive, simultaneous, miscellaneous.
6.   Stating purpose, cause and reason.
7.   Commands, requests, suggestions, approval, disapproval, prohibition and obligation.
8.   Expressing ability, preference, desire, intent, resolution and experience.
9    Describing the actions of giving and receiving.
10.  Expressing conjecture and hearsay, and quoting people.
11.  Using conditional, passive, causative and causative-passive.
12.  Making relative clauses.

Example of section 20:

彼の態度はしちょうだったり、大胆だったりします
His attitude is sometimes careful, sometimes bold. 

Explanation:  "The repeated used of the TARI form of an i-adjective or a na-adjective, followed by the verb suru, expresses alternative states in no particular sequence.  It corresponds to the English 'sometimes.....and sometimes....".  To obtain the TARI form, add kattari to the stem of i-adjectives, or dattari to the stem of an na-adjective."

It then gives a short list of any new vocabulary words used in the example sentences and that's pretty much it.

MeNoSavvy Member
Registered: 2008-05-24 Posts: 131

I started mining some sentences from this book. I think it is a great book. However I switched to using iKnow at the moment, because it is so convenient having the audio already done, and not having to stuff around with anki. I just login and go !!

You can have a decent look at it to get an idea as to what is covered on google books.

Each sentence is presented in japanese, then romanji. I know some people hate romanji, so if you fall into this category I would pass on this book.

I think the highlights of the book are
- good grammar explanations, simple, clear and to the point.
- Good choice of sample sentences and vocabulary
- Useful appendices covering verb conjugation, lists of adjectives etc

It is worth pointing out that the text is not especially advanced. It covers similar material to Genki and other beginners textbooks. Probably could be used instead of a textbook or as a supplement.

activeaero Member
From: Mobile-AL Registered: 2008-08-15 Posts: 500

MeNoSavvy wrote:

I started mining some sentences from this book. I think it is a great book. However I switched to using iKnow at the moment, because it is so convenient having the audio already done, and not having to stuff around with anki. I just login and go !!

Yeah I would probably be doing iKnow instead but my internet computer at work doesn't support Japanese.  I do this on my Eee PC for extra practice when I'm bored of TaeKim.  I figure it will make a good Anki deck to share when I'm done.

BTW what level would you say this book covers?  Most of JLPT3?

Last edited by activeaero (2009 February 18, 4:15 am)

stoked Member
From: Switzerland Registered: 2009-01-09 Posts: 378 Website

http://books.google.com/books?id=0BtGal … lt#PPP1,M1

*hints*  wink

Last edited by stoked (2009 February 18, 4:33 am)

mafried Member
Registered: 2006-06-24 Posts: 766

I'm using this book, adding the sentences to Anki with TTS pronunciation.  I plan on posting the completed Anki deck when I'm finished.  It's a slow, time intensive process however, and is likely to take as long as RTK.  There is by my estimation about 1,200 sentences of value to a beginning student of Japanese.

Ryuujin27 Member
Registered: 2006-12-14 Posts: 824

stoked wrote:

http://books.google.com/books?id=0BtGalt5ts4C&dq=japanese+Sentence+Patterns+for+Effective+Communication.&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=de&ei=V-KbSaa2JIbk0AXx69TABQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPP1,M1

*hints*  wink

Wow, it pretty much is just straight example sentences. Hmm... I'll have to see if any local bookstores carry this. Perhaps Kinokuniya does. I'd like to flip through the whole thing before I commit, I think.

Ben_Nielson Member
From: Japan Registered: 2008-12-19 Posts: 164

Man, Google Books is ridiculous.

I just found copies of RtK (older editions, but still) on there.

At this point, it's legal right?  I read a while back Google was maybe facing some legal challenges or something, but don't know how that ended up.


Anyways, from looking through this book, it seems to have a ton of decent, beginner example sentences.  I think I would prefer KO for the structure, though this book is below KO's level I think.

activeaero Member
From: Mobile-AL Registered: 2008-08-15 Posts: 500

That Google books example actually doesn't show any of the actual book material, unless I'm missing something.  The book has an index of the sentence patterns in the very beginning which is all the google book document appears to show.  The book itself isn't THAT barebones lol.

wccrawford Member
From: FL US Registered: 2008-03-28 Posts: 1551

activeaero wrote:

That Google books example actually doesn't show any of the actual book material, unless I'm missing something.  The book has an index of the sentence patterns in the very beginning which is all the google book document appears to show.  The book itself isn't THAT barebones lol.

I click on the link, and I can scroll down through the pages...  All the way to the end of the book, some 264 pages.  According to the table of contents, the last few appendices are cut off.

activeaero Member
From: Mobile-AL Registered: 2008-08-15 Posts: 500

wccrawford wrote:

activeaero wrote:

That Google books example actually doesn't show any of the actual book material, unless I'm missing something.  The book has an index of the sentence patterns in the very beginning which is all the google book document appears to show.  The book itself isn't THAT barebones lol.

I click on the link, and I can scroll down through the pages...  All the way to the end of the book, some 264 pages.  According to the table of contents, the last few appendices are cut off.

Weird.  Maybe my work computer is screwing it up (it's got all sorts of nanny software).

MeNoSavvy Member
Registered: 2008-05-24 Posts: 131

activeaero wrote:

MeNoSavvy wrote:

I started mining some sentences from this book. I think it is a great book. However I switched to using iKnow at the moment, because it is so convenient having the audio already done, and not having to stuff around with anki. I just login and go !!

Yeah I would probably be doing iKnow instead but my internet computer at work doesn't support Japanese.  I do this on my Eee PC for extra practice when I'm bored of TaeKim.  I figure it will make a good Anki deck to share when I'm done.

BTW what level would you say this book covers?  Most of JLPT3?

I'm not sure how complete the coverage of JPLPT3 but I would say the grammar is at that level. Probably it covers most of JLPT3 grammar.

I would say in practical terms if you mastered all that sentence patterns in the book, that would be sufficient for daily communication. More advanced grammar tends to show up mostly in written material.

Regarding google books, it is legal. It is up to the publisher how much of the book is shown. I think in this case the publisher was quite generous ! Note however that there seems to be quite a bit missing (although I haven't checked rigorously). For example the gammar explanations are missing. Also the formatting seems to be a bit wonky suggesting that you can see a greater proportion of the book than you actually can. Only about half the pages seem to be in the google books preview.

The book is organized basically as follows
- Grammar explanation of some point
- Sample sentences in Japanese / Romanji / English
- Next grammar point

Most textbooks seem to have situations and dialogues around things like going shopping, going to watch Sumo etc. This guide doesn't do that it just has some sample sentences

It starts off right at the beginning and then covers the same material as most other beginner's textbooks. Definitely not advanced stuff.

Here are some typical examples

"To express the past tense, the copula だ changes to だった, and です to でした。"

ロスさんは英語の先生だった。
ロスさんはえいごのせんせいだった (except this is normally in romanji)
Ms Ross was an english teacher.

then a few more examples

Then they will move on to the next grammar point such as

"To express the negative past tense ("was not"), だった changes to ではなかった, and でした to ではありませんでした。In colloquial speech, じゃmay be used in place of では in either of these negative forms. The negative past form of a sentence that uses the particle も repeatedly is でも ... でもなかった (plain style) or でも ... でも ありませんでした (polite style)."

あの外国人は先生でも学生でもありませんでした。
あのがいこくじんはせんせいでもがくせいでもありませんでした。
That foreigner was neither a teacher nor a student.

After some more examples and grammar points they might move to

"で is the conjunctive form of the copula だ or です and is used to link two sentences. It means "and". Note. The tense of a sentence ending with a noun followed by a copula is determined by the final form of the copula."

このスカーフは絹で、そのスカーフはナイロンです。
このスカーフはきぬで、そのスカーフはナイロンです。
This scalf is silk and that one is nylon.

And so forth, it is all quite systematic. The vocabulary is quite useful, and more varied that suggested from the examples above. As another poster noted the sentences are usually given in both polite and casual form. Also note the use of romanji.

Last edited by MeNoSavvy (2009 February 19, 1:19 am)

Reply #15 - 2009 April 11, 3:24 pm
fluxcapacitor Member
Registered: 2007-03-08 Posts: 70

I've typed all the sentences from this book into an Excel spreadsheet. 1,129 sentences in total.

http://www.mediafire.com/?lmtmldm4wgy

Errors fixed:
213 Misspelled word in English sentence: "camerman" instead of "cameramen" .
253 Forgot 2nd part of English sentence: There are two pairs.
312 Forgot 2nd part of English sentence: Sarah is the most industrious.
438 Had と particle written in katakana.
585 English sentence had "the did things" instead of "they did things."
703 Kanji sentence had 進めて instead of 勧めて. (Thanks Blank)
747 彼 was written as か instead of かれ in the kana sentence.
763 "quit" was misspelled "quite" in the English sentence.
774 相撲取り was written as すもうとりり instead of すもうとり in the kana sentence.
791 kanji and kana sentences both started with ダン(ダン) instead of ダン(さん)
978 降りそう was written as おりそう instead of ふりそう in the kana sentence.
1006 English sentence had "his car" instead of "this car."
1010 としこ was written as 俊子 instead of 敏子 in the kanji sentence.
1092 怒らせます was written as 起こらせます in the kanji sentence.

Last edited by fluxcapacitor (2009 August 09, 1:23 pm)

Reply #16 - 2009 April 11, 4:00 pm
activeaero Member
From: Mobile-AL Registered: 2008-08-15 Posts: 500

fluxcapacitor wrote:

I've typed all the sentences from this book into an Excel spreadsheet. 1,129 sentences in total.
http://www.mediafire.com/?oemjozocn3q

Awesome resource.  I just finished this book up a few weeks ago but didn't add every single sentence.   I recommend this over Tae Kim's, of which I had already added about 400 sentences from when I started this book.  This book is far less boring due to the simple fact that it cuts to the point with the explanations.

Reply #17 - 2009 April 11, 4:03 pm
Gingerninja Member
From: England Registered: 2008-08-06 Posts: 382

thread necro smile  but its cool cos i own the book and was about to start mining it myself.  so  1129 sentances is a nice chunk to start with.  even if its not the most advanced it should be enough to hold down a more interesting conversation than.. "hello my name is... i have a dog.. do you like tennis?"   like most beginner books.

Reply #18 - 2009 April 11, 5:13 pm
mafried Member
Registered: 2006-06-24 Posts: 766

You, sir, are a god among men.

Reply #19 - 2009 April 11, 5:40 pm
markal Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-10-22 Posts: 84

fluxcapacitor wrote:

I've typed all the sentences from this book into an Excel spreadsheet. 1,129 sentences in total.

Wow. What a gift. Thank you so much for making the fruit of your labor available to everyone. I have this book and can't tell you how many times I have *almost* started entering sentences but I just don't have the time given my circumstances.  And it's great to have the sentences in kana instead of the romaji which is the only poor aspect of that book. Thank you, again.

Last edited by markal (2009 April 11, 5:46 pm)

Reply #20 - 2009 April 11, 10:33 pm
mistamark Member
From: Japan Registered: 2008-03-26 Posts: 127 Website

fluxcapacitor wrote:

I've typed all the sentences from this book into an Excel spreadsheet. 1,129 sentences in total.
http://www.mediafire.com/?oemjozocn3q

Awesome! I like the cut of your jib sir!! smile

Reply #21 - 2009 April 11, 11:24 pm
Harrow Member
From: Eugene OR USA Registered: 2008-08-26 Posts: 122

fluxcapacitor wrote:

I've typed all the sentences from this book into an Excel spreadsheet. 1,129 sentences in total.
http://www.mediafire.com/?oemjozocn3q

Notes to self:
1. Download this excellent resource.... DONE.
3. Join the fluxcapacitor fan club... THANK YOU!!!!

Reply #22 - 2009 April 13, 9:41 pm
Wally Member
Registered: 2009-02-04 Posts: 276

fluxcapacitor wrote:

On line #253 of the Excel file, I forgot the second part of the English sentence.

I had:
How many pairs of shoes are there in this box?

It should be:
How many pairs of shoes are there in this box? There are two pairs.

New link:
http://www.mediafire.com/?zntmnwzhjht

When I try to import this file to Anki, Anki complains that it cannot read the file.  I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious, but counsel appreciated.

Reply #23 - 2009 April 13, 10:10 pm
fluxcapacitor Member
Registered: 2007-03-08 Posts: 70

Anki can't import Excel files, so you need to copy and paste all the lines from Excel (except for the headings) into Notepad. Save the file as UTF-8 and import that file into Anki.

If you're importing into a Japanese model Anki deck, set field 5 = expression, field 6 = reading, and field 7 = meaning.

If you want to import any extra fields (Chapter, Pattern, Page, Type) you have to edit your model in Anki.

Reply #24 - 2009 April 13, 10:35 pm
mafried Member
Registered: 2006-06-24 Posts: 766

fluxcapacitor wrote:

On line #253 of the Excel file, I forgot the second part of the English sentence.

Thanks for the update, fluxcapacitor.  Might I suggest that if anyone else finds typos in this spreadsheet that corrections be posted in this thread?  This is an amazing resource, and I think a lot of people are going to be interested.

Reply #25 - 2009 April 13, 11:56 pm
brianobush Member
From: Portland Registered: 2008-06-28 Posts: 241 Website

You need to convert the file from Excel to a (tab, semicolon)-delimited file.