生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise

socrat
Member

From: San Francisco
Registered: 2009-07-11
Posts: 68

Sounds native to me too Nuriko. I had a native JP speaker listen to it and she said she can still tell it's not native but pretty good. She said you make the same mistake I do when you say そういう　そういう事. I can't tell the difference but the native speaker said to try to flatten the sound on そういう。

Tori-kun
このやろう

Registered: 2010-08-27
Posts: 1153
Website

OMG! *offtopic* JETTYKE! You ******* sound like 燐君 from the anime 'Ao no Exorcist'!~ Wut. This voice is so cool. Srsly.

jessui
Member

From: Tokyo
Registered: 2008-06-16
Posts: 26

Impressive Nuriko! It sounds like you have shadowed many a news program I'd be interested to hear a more conversational response as well.

JapanesePod101
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fugu68
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From: Tokyo
Registered: 2005-11-30
Posts: 112

zigmonty wrote:
Bit of a side track, but as a speaker of a minor dialect of english, i'd really rather foreign learners not try to imitate a particular english accent so closely (mainly because it's rarely mine lol). I see nothing wrong with a german having a german accent. I definitely don't see why him speaking with a british accent is better.

I'd agree with this, providing the accent isn't so strong that it impedes comprehension. (And that's certainly not a problem with Tori-kun.) A slight foreign accent can sound really cool - I like French and Tagalog accents in English, for example. That said, it's reasonable to have some kind of standard to aim for, as a foreigner learner. If you've decided on British English, it probably has to be some fairly generic Standard Southern British - that's what the textbooks will teach, and trying to learn to actively produce anything else will be difficult and could cause you problems.

Getting exposure to a range of accents, and being able to understand them would be a big plus though.

Here's a recent popular poll of the UK's favourite accents:
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/articles.aspx … =158007257

Some nice examples of the second most popular accent in that survey (Geordie) can be heard here:
http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sound … el-sounds/

zigmonty wrote:
We natives are comfortable understanding a huge variety of accents. We do, however, all speak with the same grammar rules, etc so mistakes there really stand out.

There are some grammatical differences between dialects: use of the simple past versus present perfect. (e.g. "Did you eat yet?" is not OK in British English, but is in American English etc.) But errors like Tori-kun's "I am learning English since X years" stand out as non-native (interference from L1 in this case).

aphasiac
Member

From: 台湾
Registered: 2009-03-16
Posts: 1031

lol, this is a fun thread isn't it!!

Icecream - you sound like an anime character! exactly like i imagined you in fact..

Tori - your accent is good, better than most Germans I knew in UK. Your Japanese is ok too!

ta12121 - damn, wish I had a soeaking voice like yours..!

Sorry, nothing constructive to add except that.

zigmonty
Member

From: Melbourne
Registered: 2009-06-04
Posts: 671

fugu68 wrote:
zigmonty wrote:
We natives are comfortable understanding a huge variety of accents. We do, however, all speak with the same grammar rules, etc so mistakes there really stand out.
There are some grammatical differences between dialects: use of the simple past versus present perfect. (e.g. "Did you eat yet?" is not OK in British English, but is in American English etc.) But errors like Tori-kun's "I am learning English since X years" stand out as non-native (interference from L1 in this case).

And Australian english is a weird mix of the two... plus our own quirks. Although i'd say "have you eaten yet?", "did you eat yet?" just sounds kinda american to me, rather than wrong. I probably wouldn't really react if an australian said it.

fugu68 wrote:
Getting exposure to a range of accents, and being able to understand them would be a big plus though.

Yeah, the japanese people at work often struggle with our accent when they are first transferred here. Must be kinda demoralising to be brought up learning american english, and thinking you're pretty good, then coming here lol.

Nuriko
Member

From: CA
Registered: 2008-01-07
Posts: 603

Oh haha, thanks everyone! I was surprised to see such good feedback regarding that recording. It's very motivating, I really appreciate it! Of course, I have a ton of accent issues to straighten out still, so I'll be continuing to work on that.

Also, it's been awhile since I've had a conversation in Japanese (probably half a year D: ), so I really should do as Icecream and Tori-kun have. Plus, it seems to be the most comfortable way to build conversation skills. I've been meaning to buy Living Japanese for the past two years or so now, but I usually wince at the price and decide to wait for it to go down. However, it seems like it won't anytime soon... maybe I'll just give in and buy it

Last edited by Nuriko (2011 June 19, 9:31 pm)

thecite
Member

From: Adelaide
Registered: 2009-02-05
Posts: 781

zigmonty wrote:
Yeah, the japanese people at work often struggle with our accent when they are first transferred here. Must be kinda demoralising to be brought up learning american english, and thinking you're pretty good, then coming here lol.

I have a Japanese friend who's learnt mostly American English, and she was explaining the woes of pronouncing "can't" in an Australian accent, which sounds pretty close to a certain other word

IceCream
Closed Account

Registered: 2009-05-08
Posts: 3124

looool like an anime character?!? ><

achhh i haven't done this in ages have i?? so much for every week... i will do some soon!!!

Nuriko, definitely, you should participate! If you don't want to buy the book, i will write the questions at the end of the chapter, so you can just go from there if you want...

Where did pm go?!? i hope he wasn't driven away by all the harsh criticism, and just forgot / has been lazy like me. Anyway, just for the record, i don't think you sound like you're 70 even a bit lol!!!

pm215
Member

From: UK
Registered: 2008-01-26
Posts: 1352

No, I'm just being lazy, same as you :-)

kitakitsune
Member

From: Tokyo
Registered: 2008-10-19
Posts: 964

ta12121 wrote:
I'm still trying to get this to work but here's a very short audio of me reading. Yes I know my voice is low-toned and round(whatever that means)

http://chirb.it/22J3tF

ある日の事でございます

I'm recording some more. I'll post 2-3 more, but longer of course

Late reply but I think you need to work on your Japanese r's.

kitakitsune
Member

From: Tokyo
Registered: 2008-10-19
Posts: 964

Like this - http://chirb.it/hfLcwA

Tori-kun
このやろう

Registered: 2010-08-27
Posts: 1153
Website

kitakitsune wrote:
Like this - http://chirb.it/hfLcwA

I'm far away of calling myself fluent in Japanese, but comparing how the syllables you used are pronounced by Japanese people from different medias and sources, I'd say - watch the Estonian 'U'/'Ü' sound. Guess that would help a lot of people. Unfortunately, there is no 'ü' in English

Nuriko
Member

From: CA
Registered: 2008-01-07
Posts: 603

I did it, I finally ordered 生きた日本語！ Lately I've been realizing how much I really need to improve my conversation skills, but I just get way too nervous talking to natives via voice chat on Skype. So, until I can feel more comfortable, I'll record the conversations that me, myself and I clumsily have together

Thanks again, Ice cream, for this idea!

thisiskyle
Member

From: Kofu-cho Japan
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 32

I, too, recently bought this book. It's still way beyond me though. I've been working for like a week and I'm still on the first interviewee. I could figure out everything from reading the transcript (except for some little phrases like いわゆる) but still miss things when listening even when I know what to expect. Maybe I'll shelf it for a while and come back later.

pm215
Member

From: UK
Registered: 2008-01-26
Posts: 1352

http://chirb.it/9tg5p1 -- chapter 2 Q1 (自分の住まいを紹介しましょう). Still the same lousy accent I'm afraid since I haven't actually done anything in that area, and only the chapter 2 warmup question, but I figured I'd post pour encourager les autres :-)

ta12121
Member

From: Canada
Registered: 2009-06-02
Posts: 3187

aphasiac wrote:
lol, this is a fun thread isn't it!!

Icecream - you sound like an anime character! exactly like i imagined you in fact..

Tori - your accent is good, better than most Germans I knew in UK. Your Japanese is ok too!

ta12121 - damn, wish I had a soeaking voice like yours..!

Sorry, nothing constructive to add except that.

my voice isn't that good(personally, I think I sound horrible. Although it's hard to tell, since the way I hear myself speak is so much different than what other people here it is)

ta12121
Member

From: Canada
Registered: 2009-06-02
Posts: 3187

kitakitsune wrote:
ta12121 wrote:
I'm still trying to get this to work but here's a very short audio of me reading. Yes I know my voice is low-toned and round(whatever that means)

http://chirb.it/22J3tF

ある日の事でございます

I'm recording some more. I'll post 2-3 more, but longer of course
Late reply but I think you need to work on your Japanese r's.

yea I know. It's always those R sounds that are the hardest in Jp. That and "TSU"

Nuriko
Member

From: CA
Registered: 2008-01-07
Posts: 603

pm215 wrote:
http://chirb.it/9tg5p1 -- chapter 2 Q1 (自分の住まいを紹介しましょう). Still the same lousy accent I'm afraid since I haven't actually done anything in that area, and only the chapter 2 warmup question, but I figured I'd post pour encourager les autres :-)

Hey there,
I was listening to your "one-sided" conversations that you have on Chirbit, and wow, you have a really good control of what to say and how to say it. I can also feel that the expressions you use are very advanced. Your use of ”ではないかと" alone shows that your at a pretty high level. It's fairly easy to tell you are of British descent going by your accent, but I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. And in my opinion, it's certainly better than an American accent in Japanese (haha).

How I wish I could express myself as well as you do in Japanese!

Anyway, as soon as I finish the shadowing project I'm working on now, I plan to do some one-sided conversations as well.

pm215
Member

From: UK
Registered: 2008-01-26
Posts: 1352

Nuriko wrote:
I was listening to your "one-sided" conversations that you have on Chirbit, and wow, you have a really good control of what to say and how to say it. I can also feel that the expressions you use are very advanced. Your use of ”ではないかと" alone shows that your at a pretty high level.

That's nice to hear, because it certainly doesn't much feel like it from this side :-) I do kind of compose my thoughts a bit beforehand, and this was the second recording attempt, so don't be fooled into thinking it's totally spontaneous.

(The "wow I suck at this" feeling is actually a pretty good indication that I should keep going; I think I just need to find some kind of practice in this area I can get into the habit of doing for 10-15 minutes a day, the same way I've got into the habit of reading and doing anki vocab review.)

IceCream
Closed Account

Registered: 2009-05-08
Posts: 3124

hey! cool, you did some more!! But yeah, i agree with Nuriko, pm. Even if you plan beforehand, your speaking is so fluid!!!

ok, i really should get going on this again. The main reason i've been so lazy is that my cd/dvd player on my laptop doesn't work, which means i have to use a real dvd player to watch the dvd, and it's annoying to manipulate the times and repeat things easily so i can never be bothered, basically.

anyway, i guess it's not so important, i can just read the book instead. So, i'll start again either today or tomorrow.

... i think i'm gonna work through it differently and do all the question 1's first, then go through the book again for question 2's, then again for question 3's, because the difficulty level between the questions varies so much...

Last edited by IceCream (2011 July 17, 8:04 am)

pm215
Member

From: UK
Registered: 2008-01-26
Posts: 1352

I'm not sure the 2s and 3s are that different, although certainly the q1s (especially in the early chapters) definitely seem like "warmup" easier questions. Some of the later chapters have more than 3 questions, for that matter.

(I've just noticed that in chapter 15 instead of questions we get 季節にふさわしい童謡または唱歌を選んで、その背景について調べ、みんなで歌いましょう ... definitely not going to inflict my inability to sing on you lot...)

Tzadeck
Member

From: Kinki
Registered: 2009-02-21
Posts: 2131

I bought this book!

I just listened through the first chapter yesterday, and am going to review it a bit and then answer the questions. Though, I don't really know when I'll be able to record--my friend is staying with me and I would feel weird doing it with him here, haha. Though, he's got 狂言 rehersal every day, so maybe during that time.

And, of course, I'll post them here.

Last night I started going through this thread and I listened to IceCream's recording... what a surprising voice! It sounds sort of thoughtful and cute--and overall much closer to my inner-stereotype of a Japanese woman than a British woman.

Nuriko
Member

From: CA
Registered: 2008-01-07
Posts: 603

Good to hear that there's another person to join us! Actually, I shouldn't be saying "us" because I, myself, have barely even participated, even though I have my copy of the book/dvd...

I, too, plan on participating soon as well, though

CarolinaCG
Member

From: 京都市
Registered: 2008-11-24
Posts: 514
Website

Please honest opinions
I hate my voice, does it sound like a normal voice to you?

http://chirb.it/H9EGbh　(あゆの真似)

http://chirb.it/FM5ts1 (自己紹介)

This is the first time I'm gonna have some feedback on my spoken japanese.

Last edited by CarolinaCG (2011 July 28, 4:01 am)

Index » Group study

zigmonty wrote:

zigmonty wrote:

fugu68 wrote:

zigmonty wrote:

fugu68 wrote:

zigmonty wrote:

ta12121 wrote:

kitakitsune wrote:

aphasiac wrote:

kitakitsune wrote:

ta12121 wrote:

pm215 wrote:

Nuriko wrote: