I sometimes wonder is just hiragana enough?

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Reply #26 - 2012 June 08, 8:56 am
Nagareboshi Member
From: Austria Registered: 2010-10-11 Posts: 569 Website

I guess that it is very well possible to do without Kanji. If in case you don't plan to take JLPT, Kanji kentei, or some similar test to proof your proficiency, and depending on your goals, why not? Reading will be a bit difficult, websites with furigana, of course, but books or anything of that nature, you wouldn't want to even try.

I can only encourage you to pursue your own way, and see where it takes you. And if you find that you want to learn Kanji, do it when you are ready to, no need to force yourself and loose interest in Japanese. smile

Reply #27 - 2012 June 09, 10:38 am
Shock222 Member
From: singapore Registered: 2012-02-11 Posts: 11

Hmm, for me, who's self studying Japanese, it is a must to learn kanji to self study. Websites like Tae Kim's Japanese guild have lots of kanji and other self studying resources will most likely contain kanji, in that sense, there's no choice but to learn it.

However, OP if u have are fluent and not that interested in written media or japanese internet forums, i guess it's all right as well.

I am the same too, I am fluent in Chinese and Cantonese, but I am pretty bad at reading and writing. And since i don't feel that i will be interested in newspapers, books or forums of those 2 languages, I am happy with my level.

I'm very interested in Japanese light novels though, so for me, I will work towards reading proficiency as well as communication. Japan's one of the country I will visit often in the future after all.

Last edited by Shock222 (2012 June 09, 10:39 am)

Reply #28 - 2012 June 09, 10:58 am
Marble101 Member
From: New Jersey USA Registered: 2011-09-05 Posts: 112

Shock222 wrote:

I am fluent in Chinese and Cantonese

Isn't Cantonese a dialect of Chinese? Do you mean Mandarin and Cantonese?

@ OP: Like I said earlier, you don't have to learn how to read and write [Kanji], if you're okay with that. My native language is Gujarati, but I don't have any desire to learn how to read. IF you're okay with not reading, then I see no problem in this.

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Reply #29 - 2012 June 09, 9:57 pm
Shock222 Member
From: singapore Registered: 2012-02-11 Posts: 11

Marble101 wrote:

Shock222 wrote:

I am fluent in Chinese and Cantonese

Isn't Cantonese a dialect of Chinese? Do you mean Mandarin and Cantonese?

A little off topic: Now that you mention it, yes. In Singapore, the word Chinese is used to describe Mandarin, I guess the right term would be Mandarin

Reply #30 - 2012 June 11, 4:47 am
yowamushi Member
From: Germany Registered: 2011-06-10 Posts: 32

Learning kanji in a systematic fashion has also done a lot for my listening comprehension. Imagine kanji like 総　or 合 that appear very often and that are used e.g. as prefixes. Knowing all common kanji enables you to decipher the meaning of many unknown words - whether they are transmitted orally or in written form.

Reply #31 - 2012 June 11, 9:24 am
bflatnine Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-10-10 Posts: 360 Website

Isn't Cantonese a dialect of Chinese? Do you mean Mandarin and Cantonese?

Well, that's not quite right. Mandarin and Cantonese are both Chinese languages. Or more accurately, Cantonese is the prestige dialect of Yue, which is a Chinese language. Standard Mandarin is the standardized dialect (meaning artificially constructed) of Mandarin. Think of "Chinese" as being like "Germanic". Then "Yue" and "Mandarin" would be like "German" and "English". "Cantonese" and "Standard Mandarin" would then be like "Hochdeutsch" and "RP".

Clear as mud?

Reply #32 - 2012 June 11, 9:32 am
nadiatims Member
Registered: 2008-01-10 Posts: 1676

I'm definitely no expert, but I feel like cantonese and mandarin are closer than english and german from what I can tell. Though the pronunciation is quite different the seem to have a larger pool of common vocabulary and closer grammar than english and german. German and dutch might be a better comparison.

Reply #33 - 2012 June 11, 10:13 am
bflatnine Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-10-10 Posts: 360 Website

I'm no expert either, but from what I know I'd disagree with you there. Here's a few simple examples:

Where are you from?
你由邊度嚟架？ néih yàuh bīndouh lèih ga?
你是從哪裡來的？ nǐ shì cóng nǎlǐ lái de?

Words of negation are different. 不 in Mandarin is 唔 in Cantonese. 沒 is 冇。 Etc.

Is there anyone who can speak English?
有冇人識講英文呀? yáuhmóuh yàhn sīk góng yìngmán a?
有沒有會說英文的人？ yǒuméiyǒu huì shuō yīngwén de rén?

Anyway, my point wasn't to demonstrate a precise distance between the two languages using an example from the Germanic family, but rather to illustrate a point in terms that are likely more familiar to the OP.

Reply #34 - 2012 June 15, 5:12 pm
EWLameijer Member
From: Leiden Netherlands Registered: 2011-02-24 Posts: 16

Basically, the thousands of years before AD 400 everyone in Japan was illiterate and they managed just fine with oral comprehension and without any writing system!

While I personally like books and I think that for learning to write/speak Japanese books can be a great addition to films as you can read things in your own tempo and are not handicapped by mumbling actors, I can understand that other people may have different goals and priorities.

If your goal is to achieve functional literacy and speaking/listening/writing skills in Japanese in a minimum amount of time, kanji are essential. However, if Japanese is more of a hobby, a pleasant way to spend your free time while learning to speak and understand it as a more or less spontaneous side effect, then it really won't matter if you know kanji or not. Do what you like; you may still come back to Kanji later (even if it only were to read manga or such), but of course you're free to follow your own path and interests.

Reply #35 - 2012 June 15, 9:32 pm
fakewookie Member
From: London Registered: 2010-08-02 Posts: 362

bflatnine wrote:

I'm no expert either, but from what I know I'd disagree with you there. Here's a few simple examples:

Where are you from?
你由邊度嚟架？ néih yàuh bīndouh lèih ga?
你是從哪裡來的？ nǐ shì cóng nǎlǐ lái de?

Words of negation are different. 不 in Mandarin is 唔 in Cantonese. 沒 is 冇。 Etc.

Is there anyone who can speak English?
有冇人識講英文呀? yáuhmóuh yàhn sīk góng yìngmán a?
有沒有會說英文的人？ yǒuméiyǒu huì shuō yīngwén de rén?

Anyway, my point wasn't to demonstrate a precise distance between the two languages using an example from the Germanic family, but rather to illustrate a point in terms that are likely more familiar to the OP.

He didn't say that there was no difference between Mandarin and Cantonese, he said that they are closer than English and German, and that they

seem to have a larger pool of common vocabulary and closer grammar than english and german.

Which I'd be very surprised to find wasn't the case.

Last edited by fakewookie (2012 June 15, 9:33 pm)

Reply #36 - 2012 June 16, 2:17 am
bflatnine Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-10-10 Posts: 360 Website

Let me say again:

Anyway, my point wasn't to demonstrate a precise distance between the two languages using an example from the Germanic family, but rather to illustrate a point in terms that are likely more familiar to the OP.

It was an example. It's not perfect. So please tell me: what's your point?