Japanese cities' earthquake resistance

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Reply #1 - 2012 April 28, 3:27 pm
dizmox Member
Registered: 2007-08-11 Posts: 1149

Since a big earthquake will happen any time soon, does anyone know just how resistant Japanese cities are these days? I imagine newer buildings conform to strict regulations but a lot of buildings in Tokyo and other cities are quite old.

How many Richters would it take for stuff to start falling over en masse in big city areas I wonder. Kobe was a 7, and that wasn't that long ago, so an 8 like the Great Kanto one or a 9 like the Touhoku one must be pretty bad...

Last edited by dizmox (2012 April 28, 3:46 pm)

Reply #2 - 2012 April 28, 3:33 pm
kitakitsune Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-10-19 Posts: 1006

Well, pretty much everything built after Kobe is pretty solid. It's hard to say much about everything else but there was a ton of retrofitting done after the Kobe earthquake on older buildings.

Last edited by kitakitsune (2012 April 28, 3:34 pm)

Reply #3 - 2012 April 28, 3:56 pm
lardycake Member
Registered: 2010-11-20 Posts: 174

I can't remember if it was this forum or somewhere else, but somebody posted a link about scientists that have predicted a 50% chance that within the next 4 years an earthquake will hit Tokyo killing 9,000 and injuring 100k.

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Reply #4 - 2012 April 28, 4:06 pm
dizmox Member
Registered: 2007-08-11 Posts: 1149

Touhoku was a 9 and the buildings seemed completely fine, but it was 70km from the epicentre right? Is that "9" a measurement of the entire energy released in the earthquake, or local intensity measurement? I think it's the former, in which case I can't imagine what being at the epicentre would be like.

Last edited by dizmox (2012 April 28, 4:11 pm)

Reply #5 - 2012 April 28, 4:17 pm
kitakitsune Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-10-19 Posts: 1006

You're much more likely to be killed by a fire post quake than by anything falling on your head. This is what happened in Kobe and the last big Tokyo quake.

Reply #6 - 2012 May 03, 12:01 pm
activeaero Member
From: Mobile-AL Registered: 2008-08-15 Posts: 500

kitakitsune wrote:

You're much more likely to be killed by a fire post quake than by anything falling on your head. This is what happened in Kobe and the last big Tokyo quake.

That and I believe it was something like 90% of the buildings destroyed in Kobe were traditional wood frame homes with heavy tile roofing which is pretty much the worst structural design on earth for surviving an earthquake.  The reality is even Kobe's older apartment designs still stood up quite well and since then the building codes have increased even more.  That said in a city like Tokyo 1% of something being affected is still a huge amount so of course there will be deaths but if you live in a relatively modern apartment then you should be ok in regards to the building coming down on your head. 

I also see something in the original post that is repeated all the time and that is the "there are still a lot of old buildings in places like Tokyo".  To that I ask what city are you talking about again because it sure isn't Tokyo lol.  Compared to the rest of the world Tokyo has some of the youngest buildings in the world.  The average building age in Tokyo is only 20 years which is ridiculously young and if you've ever lived here it would be of no surprise as perfectly acceptable buildings are torn down and rebuilt on a near constant basis. 

The biggest threat, IMO at least, is anything that shuts down Tokyo's infrastructure.  Tokyo has a greater GDP than any other location on earth, roughly $1.9 trillion USD, so any "down time" Tokyo has will produce massive economic ripple effects.

Reply #7 - 2012 May 04, 3:51 am
Katsuo M.O.D.
From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-02-06 Posts: 887 Website

lardycake wrote:

I can't remember if it was this forum or somewhere else, but somebody posted a link about scientists that have predicted a 50% chance that within the next 4 years an earthquake will hit Tokyo killing 9,000 and injuring 100k.

That appears to be mixing reports. Recently, studies have been published about the probability and effects of an earthquake centred under Tokyo bay. This event would cause 9,000 or more deaths in Tokyo and is likely to happen in the next 30 years.
I have also seen reports about more imminent quakes (next 3 to 4 years) which would be powerful but with a more distant epicentre (from Tokyo's point of view) and these would be disruptive rather than deadly.

dizmox wrote:

Touhoku was a 9 and the buildings seemed completely fine, but it was 70km from the epicentre right? Is that "9" a measurement of the entire energy released in the earthquake, or local intensity measurement? I think it's the former, in which case I can't imagine what being at the epicentre would be like.

Earthquake strength numbers in Japan give a figure for the epicentre and also local ("shindo") numbers. The local number shows the strength in various locations on a scale from 1 (barely noticeable) to 7 (most buildings are damaged) details.

You can use the following rough rule of thumb to estimate the shindo in various locations:

Local strength = Epicentre strength minus distance from epicentre in kilometers divided by a hundred

E.g. Kobe earthquake strength in Tokyo:  7 – 500/100 = 2
Tohoku earthquake strength in Tokyo:  9 – 400/100 = 5

(actual measurements were 1 and 5 respectively)
(Note, when calculating distance take both horizontal and vertical into account)

kitakitsune wrote:

You're much more likely to be killed by a fire post quake than by anything falling on your head. This is what happened in Kobe and the last big Tokyo quake.

Post-quake fires are a significant hazard, but the great majority of victims in Kobe were crushed to death. Details (Japanese Wikipedia). There was a major fire in 長田区, but others were smaller scale.
In the 1923 Kanto quake the proportion of fire deaths was much higher, but lessons were learned and buildings and evacuation procedures have been greatly improved.

activeaero wrote:

...something like 90% of the buildings destroyed in Kobe were traditional wood frame homes with heavy tile roofing which is pretty much the worst structural design on earth for surviving an earthquake.

The heavy tiles are to protect against typhoons, but clearly not so good in quakes. Brick buildings would be worst of all as they tend to disintegrate with violent shaking. Hence brick is hardly used in Japan (buildings that appear to be brick are usually tiled to give that appearance).

Reply #8 - 2012 May 04, 4:32 am
kitakitsune Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-10-19 Posts: 1006

Whoops on being wrong about the proportion of deaths by fire in 1995.

Japan does appear to have greatly improved in the area of disaster response which makes me feel safe-ish.

But Kobe was a total joke of disaster management...Tohoku had a much, much better response.

Last edited by kitakitsune (2012 May 04, 4:33 am)

Reply #9 - 2012 May 04, 9:58 pm
dizmox Member
Registered: 2007-08-11 Posts: 1149

I'm not sure why I thought there are lots of old buildings in Tokyo, my mistake then. I think I just assumed there would be lots of buildings that didn't correspond to regulations for new builds.

Reply #10 - 2012 May 05, 7:28 pm
six8ten Member
Registered: 2011-02-26 Posts: 106

I just read this recently, which touches on the questions at hand:

http://skeptikai.com/2012/04/29/predict … arthquake/

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