Passive association of readings?

Index » RtK Volume 1

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frony0 Member
From: London United Kingdom Registered: 2011-12-10 Posts: 257

Hi, I'm currently working my way through RTK1 using Anki, and the custom deck which I use has fields for readings. Do you think it would be worth making these fields visible on the cards, assuming I won't actually consciously make effort to learn them yet, but so that I might subconsciously form the links and maybe even accidentally learn a few while reviewing the Kanji themselves?

Also, if so, do you agree that I should put the fields on the answer side of the card, so that I'm only linking the readings to a strong image of the characters?

Any feedback would be appreciated smile

LittleFishChan Member
Registered: 2007-09-25 Posts: 30

The goal of a flashcard is so that you can work on a single memory unit. In the case of kanji, one flashcard should work with only one thing (Meaning, reading, etc.).

Thus, having one flashcard dedicated to the meaning of a flashcard (Keyword ---> kanji), another flashcard dedicated to the pronunciation of the kanji (kanji ---> ON yomi or KUN yomi) would be more efficient in the long run.

While it might not hurt to add it simply to look at, don't think too much of it; long-term, reading flashcards are necessary.

frony0 Member
From: London United Kingdom Registered: 2011-12-10 Posts: 257

That's fair enough. But presuming I will later have dedicated cards for the readings, would it not at least speed up the process a little? And since it doesn't really hurt, am I right to think it would be a good idea?

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Reply #4 - 2012 April 24, 1:38 pm
Irixmark Member
From: 加奈陀 Registered: 2005-12-04 Posts: 291

No, don't. It's not a matter of efficiency.

ONLY learn readings in context. The kun readings are sometimes really rare words, and at other times the meaning changes subtly with the kun reading. The on readings also have relative frequencies, and sometimes certain readings go together with certain topics (like unusual/rare readings with Buddhist writings etc).

Really, don't worry about the readings yet. Later you can choose to do either all of RTK2, or parts of it (probably better), or jump straight into a textbook or the Core6k sentences.

Reply #5 - 2012 April 24, 1:45 pm
HelenF Member
From: UK Registered: 2012-04-11 Posts: 39

Shortly after finishing RTK1, I switched from this website to Anki, and I decided to put the readings on the front. I don't usually pay attention to them, but in some cases the on-yomi help me to tell apart similar keywords. I agree with Irixmark that having the the kun-yomi on the cards is not very useful - I might remove those at some point.

Currently, I'm adding the on-yomi to my RTK story when I fail a card (taking ideas mainly from Kanjidamage). Because the on-yomi is on the front, this makes the card easier rather than harder - but even so, it does still seem to be forming associations that help me learn to read words.

Of course, it's easier to make a story including the on-yomi in the first place, rather than trying to fit it in afterwards; so now I wish I'd done that from the beginning wink

Last edited by HelenF (2012 April 24, 2:09 pm)

Reply #6 - 2012 April 24, 3:19 pm
Irixmark Member
From: 加奈陀 Registered: 2005-12-04 Posts: 291

Really, don't try to learn readings in isolation.

Consider this example from Kanjidic:

行 (行)  コウ,  ギョウ,  アン,  い.く,  ゆ.く,  -ゆ.き,  -ゆき,  -い.き,  -いき,  おこな.う,  おこ.なう,  N: いく,  なみ,  なめ,  みち,  ゆき,  ゆく  going,  journey

Which reading would you take? コウ is very common, but so is ギョウ. The first tends to be used for actions, the second for 'line' or when it's a counter. What's more, 行く can be read いく or ゆく with the same ending.

This will come to you automatically if you don't worry about it now and just later learn the words in context, either as kanji compound or with its kun reading.

If the keywords are too similar for you (and that's a common problem) try changing the story a bit, or put hints (in English) next to the keyword.

Reply #7 - 2012 April 24, 5:02 pm
HelenF Member
From: UK Registered: 2012-04-11 Posts: 39

Most kanji have only one common on-yomi. And if on-yomi are primitives, it's quite possible to include two.

The biggest problem with kun-yomi on the front is that they can suggest the wrong kanji. It seems that kanji with similar keywords quite often share kun-yomi as well.

Reply #8 - 2012 April 25, 5:15 am
Katsuo M.O.D.
From: Tokyo Registered: 2007-02-06 Posts: 887 Website

If someone is learning readings then I would suggest using the joyo kanji readings as a reference rather than Kanjidic.

The joyo kanji is an official document that lists the kanji and readings to be taught in schools. Kanjidic includes the joyo readings but has many other less common ones as well.

For example, for 行:
Kanjidic: コウ、ギョウ、アン、い.く、ゆ.く、-ゆ.き、-ゆき、-い.き、-いき、おこな.う、おこ.なう いく、なみ、なめ、みち、ゆき、ゆく
Joyo: コウ、ギョウ、アン、い・く、ゆ・く、おこな・う

If you want a complete list of joyo or Kanjidic readings then the 2nd & 3rd links above are to Google spreadsheets I made with that data.

Last edited by Katsuo (2012 April 25, 5:18 am)

Reply #9 - 2012 April 25, 2:29 pm
frony0 Member
From: London United Kingdom Registered: 2011-12-10 Posts: 257

Thanks for the replies guys!

From the things you have all said, I don't think I'll add them to my cards. And thanks for the suggestion about learning readings, I'll probably try learning them indirectly through compounds instead, since in doing that I'll inherently be using the most common ones anyway.

Reply #10 - 2012 April 25, 4:54 pm
Irixmark Member
From: 加奈陀 Registered: 2005-12-04 Posts: 291

With hindsight of, uhm, six years or so, the only specific readings drill I would do is the pure groups in RTK2. I know it isn't too popular among many people here, but I think it's worth it for the 480 readings with a unique phonetic component (中 仲 忠 沖 etc).

While you're doing that you can already jump into Core6k and you'll pick up plenty of readings.

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