Merocor
Member
From: Southern California
Registered: 2011-12-06
Posts: 31
So, I'm at #652, and on my third attempt of RTK. I'm at a steady pace of about 35-40 new Kanji/day.
My process, when I'm reviewing new cards for the first time, is to 1) read the keyword, then 2) recall the story from memory(only if I need to), and 3) recall kanji from memory. If I'm able to do this in about 30 seconds, I pass it. If it takes longer, I fail it and take extra time to revert the stories to memory. However, I'm reading of most other people giving MUCH more time (up to 3-4 minutes) to recall a Kanji, and even getting to peek at the story written down to help recall the Kanji. Is this a more efficient way to learn new cards? Am I making it too hard on myself. If I am, I feel I'm capable of going at a faster pace. My worry is if I decide to go faster WITH the aid of the story written down at the beginning, it won't help me in the long run.
I understand this topic probably has been discussed before, but I've been unable to find it in the forums...
Fadeway
Member
From: Sofia Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-01-01
Posts: 90
I only give myself 10 seconds. I don't write the kanji, only recall the shape (primitives, location and peculiarities). At 50 new per day, I had ca. 250 reviews per day.
You're fast enough. At 40 a day, you'll be done in a month. Sure, you can do 100 a day and be done twice as fast, but you'll overwhelm yourself with reviews and you'll end up reviewing the "learned" kanji for a month after having "completed" RTK1. Not that that's bad, as it'll let you get on with core6k and in general finish faster, but it's time-consuming and not as efficient. Plus, since you seem to have given up a few times already, you'd want to stay consistent and just keep doing it, going 150% and then burning out won't help you.
Last edited by Fadeway (2012 April 12, 11:45 pm)
Your goal is to get used to Kanji, that is what RTK is there for. If you don't actually plan to handwrite anything or don't see the need to do it in the future, then yes, there are ways to make the process easier.
You already know that some people are adding stories to the front, blanked out and only visible while hovering over it with the mouse, which is one way. You could also add a hint to help you recall the character, a mnemonic, or an actual picture of something that reminds you of that particular kanji. Just a weak cue to help you actively recall the kanji.
And if this is not enough you might want to give the so-called lazy kanji method a try. You can find discussions about it with the search function. But this is more of a last straw if you ask me. My word of advice to you is, give yourself the necessary time to recall, even in cases where it takes 2 minutes. You will become faster at one point in time because you will have written or drawn the characters in the air numerous times. Give yourself the time it takes. 
Merocor
Member
From: Southern California
Registered: 2011-12-06
Posts: 31
Fadeway, Magareboshi, thanks so much for the input! I'm glad I'm not the only one using such a short "recall time window".
Nagareboshi wrote:
Your goal is to get used to Kanji, that is what RTK is there for. If you don't actually plan to handwrite anything or don't see the need to do it in the future, then yes, there are ways to make the process easier.
On the contrary. I love writing the kanji! I have pages upon pages of kanji written down. One of my faults (which is probably why I quit the past three times) is that I get a little obsessed with doing these. This time around, I've adopted a much slower and casual pace which so far has made the experience more fun and enjoyable.
I guess what my real concern are using the stories. Right now I'm using RevTK as my SRS. Yes, I still use the stories, but I hardly put stories into the flashcards unless I've failed a card and really need work on committing a story to memory. Thus, I hardly ever use the stories to help recall/write the kanji. This is where I'm concerned about making it too hard on myself. Is simply trusting the SRS and allowing myself the luxury of peeking at the story if I need to a successful approach to the system? If so, then I know I can go at a faster pace so long as I'm aware of making it fun and casual enough for me. My job allows me ample down time to run reviews, so the amount of reviews isn't a worry for me 
Merocor wrote:
Fadeway, Magareboshi, thanks so much for the input! I'm glad I'm not the only one using such a short "recall time window".
Nagareboshi wrote:
Your goal is to get used to Kanji, that is what RTK is there for. If you don't actually plan to handwrite anything or don't see the need to do it in the future, then yes, there are ways to make the process easier.
On the contrary. I love writing the kanji! I have pages upon pages of kanji written down. One of my faults (which is probably why I quit the past three times) is that I get a little obsessed with doing these. This time around, I've adopted a much slower and casual pace which so far has made the experience more fun and enjoyable.
I guess what my real concern are using the stories. Right now I'm using RevTK as my SRS. Yes, I still use the stories, but I hardly put stories into the flashcards unless I've failed a card and really need work on committing a story to memory. Thus, I hardly ever use the stories to help recall/write the kanji. This is where I'm concerned about making it too hard on myself. Is simply trusting the SRS and allowing myself the luxury of peeking at the story if I need to a successful approach to the system? If so, then I know I can go at a faster pace so long as I'm aware of making it fun and casual enough for me. My job allows me ample down time to run reviews, so the amount of reviews isn't a worry for me
Well, in that case, allow yourself the luxury to have them there just in case. I mean, why not? You aren't forced to hover over them, or are you? And there is also a possibility of adding at least some sort of hint, something that points in the right direction but doesn't give away too much, a more detailed hint, and the story in case all else fails. Shouldn't be too difficult to come up with a card and those additional fields. 
The only other options are to rewrite the stories, or print them out, and go over them throughout the day. Just make sure to finish it, at whatever pace is comfortable to you.
vix86
Member
From: Tokyo
Registered: 2010-01-19
Posts: 1469
Fadeway wrote:
Just don't mark a card as correctly answered if you needed the story to answer it. The goal is, after all, to connect the keywords to the characters, not the stories to them.
The goal of RTK is to write the Kanji. Its also to remember the "meaning" of the characters, but I think this one is maybe a little more debatable.
You should fail the card if you can't write it, period. If you can write it from the keyword, fine. If you have to use the keyword to recall the story and then write it, fine. However, passing the card after you peeked at the story should be a fail if your goal is to write them.
Honestly, if you aren't aiming to write the kanji anytime soon you don't really need the RTK to start learning more Japanese...
Fadeway
Member
From: Sofia Bulgaria
Registered: 2012-01-01
Posts: 90
Sorry, I meant if you need to look at the story. Recalling the story from the keyword is fine, it's how they're meant to be used. Guess I should've been clearer with my wording.
Personally, I never paid attention to writing and used RTK for the meanings only. I don't think the three months the process took me were misspent - knowing the meanings in advance helps me a lot, and not least, I don't need to have spent hours with every kanji in context to make it more than just "another weird symbol" in my mind, they're all differentiated and systematized.
Last edited by Fadeway (2012 April 13, 5:14 am)
Merocor
Member
From: Southern California
Registered: 2011-12-06
Posts: 31
vix86 wrote:
You should fail the card if you can't write it, period. If you can write it from the keyword, fine. If you have to use the keyword to recall the story and then write it, fine. However, passing the card after you peeked at the story should be a fail if your goal is to write them.
It sounds like I'm on the right track then. I hardly add the stories as it is to the site. The way I see it, if I can't recall a story from the keyword, then either the story sucks and I need to pick a new story, or I'll need to somehow modify it and make it more memorable.
frony0
Member
From: London United Kingdom
Registered: 2011-12-10
Posts: 257
As another person on the forum said, the story is effectively the direct formula for the kanji, so reading that is just as bad as looking at the kanji and copying it. Of course, if you remember it without aid, that's fine, that's the aim of the method. It's not making it harder, it's just making sure you're learning the right things.
egoplant
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2012-07-08
Posts: 161
The way I do it is I see if I can remember the story and kanji. If I can recall it, it is correct, even if it takes a minute or two. If I can't recall it, I will peek at the story and mark it incorrect.
frony0 wrote:
As another person on the forum said, the story is effectively the direct formula for the kanji, so reading that is just as bad as looking at the kanji and copying it. Of course, if you remember it without aid, that's fine, that's the aim of the method. It's not making it harder, it's just making sure you're learning the right things.
So how do you ever get one wrong? If your story is good, there should be no reason to not the kanji at all. If you are looking at the story and still not getting it, you are doing something wrong. The story is something you are supposed to remember by yourself.
Last edited by egoplant (2012 August 02, 4:46 pm)
