For me it wasn't so much less enjoyment, but enjoyment of a different kind.

When I first hit the ground with my 5 months of Japanese community college education and half of RTK1, everything was magical and fantastic. What are these crazy flashing signs and lights? Why is everyone so silly? What the heck are they saying in this goofy looking ad? Whenever I got in a weird situation, yo, it's okay! I'm an American!

My last trip this Christmas season was of a different kind. All the signs had names. Hey look, there's a grocery, there's a pharmacy. My head hurts, better get the acetaminophen... well, the aspirin is cheaper, good thing I can read everything. Because I'm Asian, people just go at me 100% in Japanese, and because I can roughly understand it, I try to oblige and I feel bad when I fail because I feel like it's something I should know how to do. My shyness and my fear of doing something rude increased 100-fold. Nothing really felt fantastic anymore and it felt like an alternate dose of reality instead of a mystical place.

On the other hand, I could really enjoy just basic things that I took for granted, like reading the menus at restaurants or having simple conversations with online friends that were actually somewhat deep. Once I got over my lack of confidence I could ask people (albeit with great difficulty) on how to do something that I would've considered impossible beforehand.

It's kinda like... growing up, I guess...

Pros to knowing Japanese in Japan:

Life is easier.

You can have great conversations with Japanese people and foreigners who can speak Japanese but not your native language.

Cons for knowing Japanese in Japan:

You realize just how boring other people's conversations are as in any country.

If you're clearly a foreigner, you have to play the "Does this gaijin understand Japanese?" game with new Japanese people you meet.

Last edited by theasianpleaser (2012 February 26, 11:18 pm)

theasianpleaser wrote:

If you're clearly a foreigner, you have to play the "Does this gaijin understand Japanese?" game with new Japanese people you meet.

This is a pro in my book. I like walking into a store in the middle of nowhere and getting the "deer in the headlights" look as they realize "Oh shit....I don't know English WHAT AM I--" "こんにちは！ええとですね、blahblahblahありませんか？”Phew~!"

I enjoy Japan more knowing Japanese. There were enough people before me posting on the internet about the problems of Japan that my view on Japan had already been brought back to reality before I even set foot on a plane. If you are a people person then Japanese really lets you get to know people better and get more out your experiences. If you aren't a people person...then I'm not sure what to tell you.

I used to be big into martial arts and loved what I thought to be bushido ... I loved going around Liverpool fighting, getting my nose broken, having glasses broken on my head, the trips to the hospital, the threats of being arrested, the door firms threatening me with rape, the training in blood soaked clothes, the machetes, getting grassed up to a top man in the city, the turning up to uni covered in blood and scars, the punching brick walls, kicking lamp posts, the riding in police cars the getting banned from bars and the rationalizing it all with a type of daft fake politeness and "morality" enshrined in Japanese warrior culture, bowing and muttering Musashi quotes to myself whilst being exceedingly polite to doormen who had threatened to kill me.

The more I studied Japanese the more I moved away from the Japanese martial arts world - People always ask me if I'm into martial arts and I always reply that my love of the Japanese language and kanji in particular has caused me to give a lot less head space to the Japanese warrior tradition.

I have heard a lot of people declare that the more interested in the language you get the less interested in the culture you become and I think there is a lot of truth in this. My new hobby is chess and I think it is due to my dedication to the Japanese language that Japan orientated hobbies don't take up more of my time.

I did really enjoy Japan when I went though.

Tzadeck, you're right, it was you, I just found it in the "Has Japan Let You Down" thread. 

Well, this is reassuring.  My first trip to Japan is going to be in Sept/Oct.  By that time I'll probably have finished RTK, Pimsleur, Japanese the Manga Way, and a couple months of sentences and input.

Not nearly enough to dampen my fun, I hope

Jarvik7 wrote:

Bushido = constant bar fights? Whu?

Glad i wasn't the only one who kept waiting for the "just kidding".

zigmonty wrote:

Jarvik7 wrote:

Bushido = constant bar fights? Whu?

Glad i wasn't the only one who kept waiting for the "just kidding".

was he just kidding?

I can't tell.

Well yeah being able to read all the mysterious signs does make it seem like just another place on this earth, which it of course is. An a side note, am I the only one who gets the feeling Honyakujoshua is a pathological liar.

Another thought on the topic...After leaving Japan I backpacked around Asia for a few months before coming home.  It was an amazing trip, but after having learned to communicate in Japanese and having the experience of living there and understanding what people were saying, I felt like my experience of the other countries was definitely more superficial, and I would have enjoyed them even more if I could have communicated more with people.

A somewhat tangential post but here it comes anyway.

The more you understand culture and language of that other part of the world the more you start appreciating your own backyard. In a certain way, by giving yourself a wider perspective, you can more objectively balance those bad and good things you grew up with.

Tzadeck wrote:

I made the original comment, I believe. 

I think part of it is this: the more you understand Japanese the more similar your experiences will be to those in your home country.  The less of the language you know the more confused you are; the more confused you are the more exciting your life is.

Rather, as your Japanese level increases from zero it allows you to have more varied experiences in Japan, so your enjoyment of Japan actually goes up or stays the same.  But then as you become closer and closer to actual fluency the enjoyment level starts to go down again because life is too easy and less interesting.

I totally agree. I remember when I first came to Japan I was excited about 六本木・渋谷・秋葉原. I remember taking photo of vending machines and electric toilets because they were so unusual to me. But now, the more I understand Japanese the more I got interested in normal things as literature, laughter show, etc... The biggest advantage of speaking a decent Japanese is that I can enjoy adult conversation with my father in law. However, the big(?) disadvantage of speaking Japanese is that I finally see Japan as just another country (as it was supposed to be from the beginning, though) as I am finally aware of their politics, television programs, rigid/hierarchical social structures/mentalities, amount of sexual-related crime, condensed living design, etc..
However,　most of those things are the ones I dislike of my own country so I think that`s not a great deal.

ta12121 wrote:

Define "people person". Just curious. Everyones definition of that is different. I would like to here yours.

I think your saying people who can socialize and get out there right? I remember back in highschool I was super shy. People couldn't hear what I was saying and I mumbled when I talked. It was only after taking co-op in highschool that I changed so much. Although when I went to college, things changed for the better but I have tendency to talk a lot if one got me started which is pretty much the opposite of what I was in highschool.

Bit delayed in response.

What I mean by 'people person' is you have an interest in other people and kind of want to get to know them better. Maybe you just like talking to people, or maybe you are interested in the lives of others. Knowing more Japanese clearly lets you do this. If you weren't a people person though, you'd probably only benefit in being able to read more stuff and consume more media. Its probably a big question of what you value more, but even me, not being a major person and having studied Japanese to be able to consume more Japanese content, still thinks the 'talking to people' aspect still gains tons more from more Japanese skill.