At least Japanese people aren't yelling about how "Dey Tuk R Jarbs!"

About shopkeepers-----

If they are not personable and will not ask me about my private life, how come I got 50 questions and the usual `nihongo umai desu ne` dribble from the pharmacist yesterday for ten minutes when I was just trying to buy canker sore cream?

Diana wrote:

About shopkeepers-----

If they are not personable and will not ask me about my private life, how come I got 50 questions and the usual `nihongo umai desu ne` dribble from the pharmacist yesterday for ten minutes when I was just trying to buy canker sore cream?

I'm willing to bet that as your Japanese gets better and better this will happen to you less and less...

(Besides, the way I phrased my post allowed for exceptions like this)

LivingNexus wrote:

However, you have made me really paranoid about the police now. I'm especially worried about them keeping my passport if I'm asked to hand it over; meaning the next time I get asked for it I'll get quickly deported even though it's not really my fault.

Have you ever heard of an officer keeping someone's passport?  Because I never have.

Actually, I've never been asked by police for identification.

Last edited by Tzadeck (2012 February 01, 2:29 am)

It could just be that you have a personality that somehow draws people into talking you.  But in my experience, and I think a lot of others would agree, as your Japanese gets better less people say that to you.  (Part of it, I've always suspected, is also cultural.  As you live in Japan longer and longer you kind of start to act more Japanese, and people start to treat you more Japanese--which I guess includes not commenting on your language ability.)

When I was N4/3 level people said that to me all the time.  I'm N1 level now and almost no one ever says that to me.

I've definitely had friends be stopped by the police for identification, but just not myself.

Last edited by Tzadeck (2012 February 01, 2:48 am)

sometimes instead of 日本語が上手 I get 日本人の方ですか

and i have to say "no, i'm terrible at conversation"



i was stopped twice by police.
in one instance i was walking around kyoto station. i kinda got lost looking for friends and he asked what i was doing/where i was going.
the other instance i was hanging around tokyo station trying to figure out what to do and what omiyage to get when 2 plainclothes officers come up to me and ask me in japanese where my hometown is... i was like "uhh... america?" and they asked to see my passport.



racism in the US varies since it's so big and there are different attitudes depending on which part of the country you're in, then which city you're in, then which part of the city you're in...

Discrimination.
The major points that I have seen/heard are what you would call "racial profiling." I have heard black people get stopped on the streets more often than white people and asked for passport/ARCard. Some even get stopped by the same cop consecutively in the same neighborhood. Hotels will sometimes also try to photocopy passports of residents or those with ARCs when they aren't suppose to. Ive never had any issue with this except for once. Usually if you show the card they go "ok" and ask you to fill in an address.

Hyperborea wrote:

I think a lot of people posting about "how horrible it is to be a foreigner in Japan" have no idea what it's like being a foreigner anywhere else. Just about everything that's posted is not much different from being a foreigner in the US except less severe. They sound to me mostly like people who've left their place of "privilege", more often than not Americans, and are unused to not being top dog in the society.

The US is a heterogeneous society with people of multiple ethnic backgrounds. Most of the cases that often get noted as "racial discrimination"  in Japan are often people just freaking out that "Holy shit its a white person!!!." Sometimes its a amazement/curiosity and other times its a bit of fear. Thing is, in the US people are at least use to other people of different colors. Might they still discriminate? Ya. They might use racial slurs, or react differently once you open your mouth and show you aren't American. But they aren't freaking out like crazy because "Holy cow its a black guy; stare at him from the corner of your eye." "Give him 3 person radius while walking on the street."

Diana wrote:

I was asked by the police for my gaikokujin card in Narita airport and once on my bicycle in Kyoto.  (The former was bored I think, and the latter was investigating PURSE robberies that had occured in the area)

This actually reminds me of a funny difference between police at Narita vs the TSA ****-tards. If you sit/stand around at Narita for too long the police WILL eventually walk up to you and ask you for your passport (if you look foreign). Funniest thing is they are always so nice about it which is not my image of police or TSA in the US at all. They're all apologies about it and crap. They'll take it and write down the information and what not.

Jarvik7 wrote:

At least Japanese people aren't yelling about how "Dey Tuk R Jarbs!" big_smile

Give it 10-20 years and they'll be begging saying: "TEK R JARBS!!!"

I just came back from my first trip in Japan. It was 31 days long and all the time I stayed in Okinawa, pretty laid back place.
As a pedestrian 100% of the cars stopped and let me pass when I was crossing small streets (without lights). This rarely happens to me in Romania or never in China (I lived here 6 months and Im staying two more).

So yeah, people are happier in Okinawa, they laugh and eat all day. Dunno about crazy crowded Tokyo.

What I didn't like:
- they know less english then I imagined. I started my japanese (RTK just) only the day I arrived so I couldnt talk more than "Excuse, can I have this one and one beer? thx"
- its expensive (kinda knew it).
- Police/immigration officials. Our country gets a 90 visa on arrival. The officer at the Naha airport maybe didn't know too much english or he didnt like me and my answers. "Why you stay one month? Its too much...", please wait for an interview with someone else. I was thinking 'If they refuse my entry, this will be the only reason for stopping me learning japanese" (I was just starting and bought alot of materials).
I was dressed nice & expensive for this. So we talked about 10 minutes and I got my visa only after I told them I'm learning japanese and show them Jimi's books (hiragana for kids) and about a half marathon race I want to run (I knew the exact place and date; didn't go in the end).
After this the same notfriendly officer showed me a list with forbidden items and I said yes, I have some pirated dvds (pokemon and Elite Yankee Saburo ). After they confiscated those they search everything in my luggages, xraying my laptop also. No problem, it was over. "If you spend all your money you are not allowed to work in Japan" was their last word, but it wasn't mean and I knew that rule.

You guy must spend some weeks in China to see the way people behave. You'll love japanese after. Chinese smoke in your face, spit everywhere, retch, always try to get in front of you in a queue, drive like mad, aren't silent at all ANYWHERE (except temples maybe). Oh man, what nice and silent was in the yui rail in Okinawa!
Chinese also stare at you, japanese aren't.

Like someone else I know what I like: the girls, the food, some movies and some parts of the culture. I don't mind being called gaijin (see my nick?; also I knew before I started to study that there are clubs/places where foreigners are not allowed). I knew about police (is the police nice in any country btw?) and some laws. If you didnt do it till now, please read Tokyo Vice by J. Adelstein.
I already posted this link in the 'japanese wife' topic: http://www.cracked.com/article_19363_6- … k-out.html

Anywas, I think the new immigration laws are better and more foreigners get jobs.

Oh I forgot, in a Lawson store one employeed didnt say "thank you good bye" when I left. Should I get upset like I'm the Emperor or something? )

Last edited by Gaijinme (2012 February 01, 5:12 am)

hmm... let's see.

Police: I've been stopped twice while on my bike, both times in the same area. One time it was 2 undercover police who suddenly rode up beside me and asked for id, they then asked where I bought the bike, called up the store and confirmed some number written on the bike. I was asked to show my id once at the ferry terminal to Pusan at Shimonoseki, by two plain-clothes "police". I used quote marks because to this day I still think there was something odd about them, they seemed really unprofessional, and one of them looked 17 or something. Maybe it was training or something...
Other than those 3 occasions, nothing in 4.5 years.

As for racism, I can't say I've experienced any. As has been mentioned the 外人扱い tends to more or less disappear once you can speak/act Japanese fairly well. The word 外人never really bothered me. I think political correctness is a little overboard in some parts of the world. I also wonder if a lot of the complaints of being treated differently comes from the parallel reality that is being an ALT. People who work with ALTs are I think used to a revolving door of foreigners who can't speak Japanese, are usually quite young and inexperienced etc. It's very different after you become a normal employee working at a normal company, speaking japanese daily with japanese colleagues. Any handholding and special treatment ends.

re the law. One thing I've noticed is you tend to hear a lot about fraud (オレオレ詐欺 etc). I don't know if just because it's reported more, or there's some societal reason for it.

ronnihonjin wrote:

The Japanese constitution also frustratingly contains provisions defending the rights of 国民 (kokumin- citizens, or nationals) Thus any hope for the protection of the human rights offered under the constitution here are in vain, unless one is a Japanese citizen. The Japanese courts have also found this to be the case.

And what has the Japanese Supreme Court said about article 14 being applied to people in Japan who are not citizens?

kitakitsune wrote:

ronnihonjin wrote:

The Japanese constitution also frustratingly contains provisions defending the rights of 国民 (kokumin- citizens, or nationals) Thus any hope for the protection of the human rights offered under the constitution here are in vain, unless one is a Japanese citizen. The Japanese courts have also found this to be the case.

And what has the Japanese Supreme Court said about article 14 being applied to people in Japan who are not citizens?

思うに、憲法第三章の諸規定による基本的人権の保障は、権利の性質上日本国民のみをその対象としていると解されるものを除き、わが国に在留する外国人に対しても等しく及ぶものと解すべきであり、政治活動の自由についても、わが国の政治的意思決定又はその実施に影響を及ぼす活動等外国人の地位にかんがみこれを認めることが相当でないと解されるものを除き、その保障が及ぶものと解するのが、相当である。

here you are. An excerpt from the case McLean v Minister of Justice, 1978. essentially the court has acknowledged that the guarantee of fundamental rights included in Chapter Three of the Constitution extends also to foreign nationals staying in Japan except for those rights, which by their nature, are understood to address Japanese nationals only.

Fantastic, those rights, which by their very nature are understood to address Japanese nationals only......Im glad that was cleared up, no way that gaping wide loophole could be used to the detriment of Johnny foreigner. Anyway if you really are interested in the opinions of a legal expert, might I suggest reading this article by Colin Jones

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/fl20111101a1.html

vix86 wrote:

I was saying that here in 10-20 years Japan will be saying "Please come take our jobs!" because they won't have the labor force to keep the entire country functioning. A 1/3 of the population is set to retire here in the coming decades.

Maybe this situation will spur the Japanese government into retooling their legislation on foreigners. I really hope so, because from what you guys have told me, I would NEVER move to Japan permanently unless it was to work for  an American company that would make sure to take care of me. XD

Last edited by LivingNexus (2012 February 01, 9:37 am)

Tzadeck wrote:

This thread reminded me a bit of the introduction to Read Real Japanese Fiction.  The editor talks about how learning a langauge is like taking a very long train ride, but you don't know where the train is going.  What will you think of the place you arrive at?  Who knows?  The way learning a language will change your life is not clear.  Maybe you'll be interested in something you never knew about before.  Maybe you'll meet people who will change your life.  Maybe you'll have experiences you don't like.  But you should just be excited that life is going to be interesting, and you never know what is going to hapen.

Couldn't say it any better! Thanks!!

Hashiriya wrote:

Japan hasn't let me down yet. I will say it is definitely better to be a tourist there than to work there though. The only thing that have truly bothered me about Japan is the police. I didn't really care for them telling me that I stole a bicycle just because I happened to buy one when I got to the hostel I was staying at. I just showed them the proof and they went away. Make sure to ALWAYS carry your passport on you when you go!

Having found out I have to do this instead of leaving it in the apartment I'm worried I'll end up losing it...