What kind of a word is "Decameron"?

Index » RtK Volume 1

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Reply #1 - 2011 December 30, 10:12 am
goranbr New member
From: Sweden Registered: 2011-12-27 Posts: 1

Is that even a word? What does it mean?

Do the Japanese have a Kanji for Bocaccio's Decamerone? The Italian story collection?

Why is it in an ABC book for first learners of Japanase?

Does anyone know?

Reply #2 - 2011 December 30, 10:31 am
Fillanzea Member
From: New York, NY Registered: 2009-10-02 Posts: 534 Website

It means "a ten day period."

There is a kanji for "a ten day period." (旬) Decameron is the closest word we have in English, though it's rare.

旬 is fairly common but not absolutely essential; but you shouldn't be using Heisig if you prefer a method that gives you the most common kanji first.

Reply #3 - 2011 December 30, 11:11 am
BrassBanana New member
From: Britian Registered: 2011-09-01 Posts: 5

Don't worry there are abundance more keywords you don't hear regularly in English. There also are titles, strange phrases and old fashioned Japanese measurements. I didn't know what about 5% of the keywords I've encountered so far meant. If i made a thread every time i didn't understand the keyword, instead of just guessing, looking in a dictionary or finding an explanation on the story section of this website, I would have probably annoyed allot of people. And as for Decameron the only explanation of that word i know is the one  Heisig gives himself in the book. (^_^)

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Reply #4 - 2011 December 30, 11:50 am
JimmySeal Member
From: Kyoto Registered: 2006-03-28 Posts: 2279

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Decameron wrote:

The book's primary title exemplifies Boccaccio's fondness for Greek philology: Decameron combines two Greek words, Greek: δέκα déka ("ten") and (Greek: ἡμέρα hēméra ("day"), to form a term that means "ten-day event".[1] Ten days is the time period in which the characters of the frame story tell their tales.

Reply #5 - 2011 December 30, 4:46 pm
zigmonty Member
From: Melbourne Registered: 2009-06-04 Posts: 671

goranbr wrote:

Is that even a word? What does it mean?

In my edition he explains that in the story for the kanji. You do have the book right?

goranbr wrote:

Why is it in an ABC book for first learners of Japanase?

Heisig is not an ABC book for first learners of Japanese. It's intended for people who want to achieve a high level of japanese proficiency in a short period of time and are willing to take an extensive detour in the hopes it pays off. Hence you *do* learn rare kanji before learning common words. The idea is that it gets you to the end goal faster, not that you make the quickest progress in the beginning. If you find that idea frustrating, heisig isn't the approach for you (try a search for RTK Lite if you want a related alternative).

Also, don't assume that because the word is rare in english that the kanji must be rare. The following words aren't hugely uncommon:

下旬
中旬
上旬

Reply #6 - 2011 December 30, 11:12 pm
ファブリス Administrator
From: Belgium Registered: 2006-06-14 Posts: 4021 Website

OP wrote:

Why is it in an ABC book for first learners of Japanase?

Either:

* The character appears itself later as a component to another character. Even if the later character(s) do not have much use, the technique is to break them down.

* The character is easily built from primitives that you have recently learned (in this case "rope" and "sun" if I remember well...), and thus gives you more "coverage" for remembering the primitives.

If you learn a "building block" (a primitive/chinese radical) with very few characters that use it, you will forget it. So Heisig will give you a couple characters that use the primitive, even if those are not common. At the end of the day, you are still learning a real Japanese character. What's not to like?

Reply #7 - 2011 December 31, 12:27 am
Tzadeck Member
From: Kinki Registered: 2009-02-21 Posts: 2484

goranbr wrote:

Why is it in an ABC book for first learners of Japanase?

Because it's a very common kanji.  Months are often broken up into three ten-day periods in Japanese.  上旬(じょうじゅん) is the first ten days of a month,　中旬(ちゅうじゅん) is the middle ten days of a month.　下旬(げじゅん) is the last ten days of a month.  I see this kanji way more often than, say, butterfly (蝶), but you probably wouldn't think of learning butterfly as anything strange.

When you learn a language you need to learn the words that are popular in that language, not words that are popular in your own language.

Last edited by Tzadeck (2011 December 31, 12:27 am)

Reply #8 - 2011 December 31, 12:33 am
Oniichan Member
From: 名古屋 Registered: 2009-02-02 Posts: 269

The reading is しゅん, and this character is commonly found on product packaging and sometimes in restaurant names/menus as it commonly means 'in season'. I see it at least a couple times a week. ymmv

Reply #9 - 2011 December 31, 2:17 am
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

It's しゅん when it's alone like you mention, but in the compounds Tzadeck mentioned it's じゅん.  (I'm not sure you were actually contradicting Tzadeck but I just wanted to clarify.)

Last edited by yudantaiteki (2011 December 31, 2:18 am)

Reply #10 - 2011 December 31, 5:01 am
Omoishinji Member
From: 埼玉 Registered: 2011-07-12 Posts: 289

goranbr wrote:

Is that even a word? What does it mean?

Do the Japanese have a Kanji for Bocaccio's Decamerone? The Italian story collection?

Why is it in an ABC book for first learners of Japanase?

Does anyone know?

Decameron or Decamerone in Japanese is　デカメロン or 十日物語. Which is just 10 day story, quite easy.

* reference online reference dictionary goo and kotobank
* 広線苑

Reply #11 - 2011 December 31, 5:09 am
Betelgeuzah Member
From: finland Registered: 2011-03-26 Posts: 464

Pretty funny that the 10-day kanji isn't used in the translation of...decameron.

Reply #12 - 2011 December 31, 5:27 am
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

Well, it's not actually used for any 10-day period; if you were saying that you were going on vacation for 10 days you wouldn't say 一旬 or anything like that.

Reply #13 - 2011 December 31, 1:46 pm
JimmySeal Member
From: Kyoto Registered: 2006-03-28 Posts: 2279

yudantaiteki wrote:

It's しゅん when it's alone like you mention, but in the compounds Tzadeck mentioned it's じゅん.  (I'm not sure you were actually contradicting Tzadeck but I just wanted to clarify.)

Also, じゅん is the only reading in the joyo kanji list.  しゅん is a non-joyo reading, so it seems that じゅん isn't simply a case of rendaku.

Reply #14 - 2011 December 31, 5:34 pm
Omoishinji Member
From: 埼玉 Registered: 2011-07-12 Posts: 289

Betelgeuzah wrote:

Pretty funny that the 10-day kanji isn't used in the translation of...decameron.

野上 素一（のがみ そいち、1910年1月29日 - 2001年2月4日）
Souchi Nogami used 十日物語 as the title in his 1940-1950 translation of the book.

Another translator used the a similar title.

All the current translations use only デカメロン, but the former two include デカメロン with 十日物語. As, I don't have any of the translations I can't compare where the differences are. Just out of curiosity I will look for the book in my local library next week.

Reply #15 - 2012 January 01, 12:49 am
Oniichan Member
From: 名古屋 Registered: 2009-02-02 Posts: 269

yudantaiteki wrote:

It's しゅん when it's alone like you mention, but in the compounds Tzadeck mentioned it's じゅん.  (I'm not sure you were actually contradicting Tzadeck but I just wanted to clarify.)

No, I wasn't trying to contradict Tzadeck. I just wanted to make the point that it is fairly common. Actually, I wasn't able to see his post until I clicked 'submit', as he must have been typing a reply around the same time. The truth is that I completely agree with what he said, "When you learn a language you need to learn the words that are popular in that language, not words that are popular in your own language."

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