aphasiac wrote:

Japan is a society that is not massively welcoming to outsiders;...

That sounds like the Japan before Perry negotiated with Japan in open for trade. I don't know why that old idea is still around.

dizmox wrote:

Yeah, everyone I've met has been extremely welcoming.

All the Japanese people I've meet so far have always been welcoming too. I guess everyone has their opinions

Omoishinji wrote:

aphasiac wrote:

Japan is a society that is not massively welcoming to outsiders;...

That sounds like the Japan before Perry negotiated with Japan in open for trade. I don't know why that old idea is still around.

As long as you're not Chinese or Korean and know your proper place as an 'outsider' - Japan can be a pretty welcoming place.

Food there is much more palatable, I only really watch Japanese media/listen to Japanese/Korean music, karaoke, shops cater to my hobbies, Japanese personalities are easier for me to get on with, prefer speaking Japanese to English, better public order, better customer service, etc. I'm not sure why it's so surprising on a forum devoted to learning Japanese that some members would want to live there. 

I have no particular emotional ties to here so it'd be a shame not to take the opportunity to explore the world. Britain is very parochial really (like everywhere). With graduation approaching my choices were to settle down into a monotonous job until I'm infirm, or to go abroad and do something exciting. I don't get this philosophy of "the place you were born is the place you belong".

And to your last question, general interest in Japan, I guess?

I didn't want this thread to become about me...

Last edited by dizmox (2011 November 22, 11:50 am)

If my dad could immigrate to here and cope then I think I'll be okay.

I could understand if I were moving back to where he came from, but really guys. Japan is a first world country with plenty of opportunities just like other first world countries. I don't understand the apprehension. Do we really think the Anglosphere and its common expat destinations are all that superior to everywhere else? If complained about something trivial like the weather and said I wanted to move to Australia or Spain I'd probably be getting a pat on the back in most British circles despite those places being more culturally disparate from me than Japan.

Last edited by dizmox (2011 November 22, 12:37 pm)

The UK has become draconian over immigration, and the right wing tabloids never stop blaming everything on immigrants.

Japan seems to be opening up lately.

kitakitsune wrote:

Interesting, I really hope you know what you're getting into.

For every 100 people with your idea of Japanese life - it only works out for 2 or 3...

i think the difference is that dizmox has the experience to back it up.

and to me that's no big problem at all.
i can empathize because i've lived in the US as a second-gen filipino. there's a lot of american things that have "overwritten" my filipino cultural background, and vice versa.

there's a bit of a difference between superiority and preference. a lot of the japan illusion is based on people thinking it's superior without experiencing it themselves. there's a lot of stuff i like about japan, a lot of stuff i don't like, and a lot of stuff i like and don't like that don't change based on where i live.

i can see why depression kicks in with ajatt though.
it's hard to be completely immersed if you've never had the experience of actually being there. and all you've been working for might be for naught because it can just completely change.

i do think that as humans, we need to be more locally aware. i don't agree that you should close yourself out for the sake of learning language.

one of the principles of great traditional japanese cooking is to use the best local, fresh ingredients (which is not a principle exclusive to japanese cooking) and i can't imagine going out of my way to buy imported vegetables and fish to cook japanese food for the sake of immersion. i think that applies to the rest of ajatt too. i wouldn't isolate myself to only japanese when the world around me doesn't speak it. i wouldn't concern myself with japanese domestic policy when it has no effect on my life. i wouldn't forcefully adopt other cultural elements without experiencing both the pros and cons of it and if i can't adapt it to my way of living as it is. talking with japanese people on skype should not be a replacement for going out to dinner with friends that can understand you, relate to you, and share experiences with you.

the internet is great; don't get me wrong. but i think it's necessary to maintain an anchor in the local, real world.

Yeah, I know that. But the concept of "being accepted" is ambiguous enough that it doesn't bother me. Just looking at social aspects, having some good friends is all that's important to me.

I don't think it's too much different here... if a Japanese family moved next door here, lived there for 20 years, I think we'd still think of them as the Japanese neighbours rather than the English neighbours.

To quote my Californian friend: "People call us japanese neighbors, and I was born here, American citizen and everything"

Last edited by dizmox (2011 November 22, 1:51 pm)

4th and 5th generation Koreans and Chinese living in Japan are not even accepted, and they enjoy the benefits of being able to blend in racially if they wanted to. Just think of that a bit.


The UK and the US have rather extensive histories of immigration and are accepting of immigrants and this is reflected in their governmental policies and the amount of diversity you see everywhere.

Japan is the opposite. The history is not there, the population is against it, and all efforts to promote the repatriation of ethnically Japanese Latin Americans has failed with the Japanese government now offering them money to go back to Brazil, etc.

Let me give some numbers

About 10,000 foreigners become Japanese citizens every year. The majority of these are zainichi Chinese and Koreans.

In the USA - it takes a grand total of 4 days for the number of citizenships given to surpass Japan's quota.

A country of 120,000,000 with negative population growth taking in only 10,000 people a year and giving out cash money to immigrants so they can GTFO of Japan are pretty clear signs that Japan isn't a country open to the idea immigration.

So you can immigrate to Japan just don't ask for the same rights as Japanese people?

Just get a permanent residency visa.