IceCream wrote:

@leosmith: there is a medium option between those two for Japanese though... that's reading books on the computer along with Rikaichan.

Although good authors generally don't repeat exact descriptions the way that bad authors often do, they do have their own style, and you're likely to meet words more than once. If the book isn't too far above your level, you end up picking up quite a few. If you can stick with the same author through at least a few books, it's even better.

Anyway, that way you only have furigana where you need it, and instant looking up power, which is perfect.

This is a good point, and is something I'm planning starting soon.  To start easing myself into novels, my plan is to print out newspaper articles from Rocket News Japan, and print out parallel text stories.  My first reading will be on paper, with only the kanji, and I'll highlight anything that I can't read.  Then I'll go to the online version, checking the readings and definition with Rikaichan, and write down those new words, and throw them into SRS.  Maybe a week or two later, I'll re-read the paper version, and see how much I remember.

Leosmith: You do certainly have a point about having to wean oneself off of depending on furigana.  I guess I made it sound like I intended to read only text with furigana and automatically learn kanji.  That's really not the case at all.  I just think for the level I'm, they're helpful for learning new words, and they help reinforce the words that I've been SRSing.  I've actually had kanji compounds that I could not remember through SRS, no matter how hard I tried.  However, I've come across those compounds in manga, with the furigana next to them, and suddenly, I was able to remember them.  I recognize that furigana is a crutch, but for beginners, or lower intermediate, they're a huge help.
I actually like the method you outlined - spending a certain amount of time a day reading easy text with furigana, and then spending time doing more intensive reading, without furigana.  That's the method I'm hoping to start in a month or two once KO2001 is out of the way.  Right now, since I'm devoting so much time to that, I only have time to read manga either before bed, or on the bus, so right now, having furigana is ideal.
I think since I didn't RTK, my methods are going to be a bit different from those who did do RTK.

Oh, and this whole thread is awesome, BTW.  It has exactly the type of information I've been looking for.

Last edited by quark (2011 November 17, 2:16 pm)

mutley wrote:

The head teacher at one of my schools recently recommended 星新一 to me. His books seem to be mostly collections of short stories, which are again aimed at adults but aren't too difficult to understand. Try 午後の恐竜

I've read this, and when I got to the title story (about half way through the book) I found it just deeply depressing and it took me months before I got round to finishing the rest of it...

yeah, in normal circumstances i also much prefer real books... the benefit of rikaichan is just too great

pm215 wrote:

I've read this, and when I got to the title story (about half way through the book) I found it just deeply depressing and it took me months before I got round to finishing the rest of it...

I think most people don't mind reading depressing stuff, but I sure do. Thanks for your comment; I wish more reviews would mention this kind of thing.

IceCream wrote:

well, i don't know if you can really compare them like that, since they don't do the same job. I've never used LingQ though

No offense, but I'm pretty sure you don't know what LingQ does. I'm not defending it, or saying it's better than what you're doing. Hell, I only used it for a little while myself, and remembered why I hate reading on the computer. Basically, there is a huge library of content with audio and translation. You can add your own stuff if you prefer. You select some content, it appears in the window and you read it. Then you download the audio and listen. When you read, there is a built in pop-up. It creates automatic flashcards for your unknown words if you want. That's basically it.

There are lots of bells and whistles which aren't as important, but some people like. For example, the program keeps track of what words you know, and highlights the ones you don't if you want. It keeps statistics on how many words you know, etc. Maybe the biggest advantage I see is all the pre-existing graded content with audio. The biggest disadvantage is having the number of active files limited if you don't pay. The pay structure may have changed since I used it several years ago, but it used to be based on number of files you had, and whether your were using premium services like tutors. I never understood why someone would want more than one active file; why not just delete the stuff you finished, and use the program for free? But like I said, I didn't use it for long. Back then the Japanese program wasn't complete, but now he claims it's working perfectly.

Anyway, I'm not trying to make you switch, but I just want to know - after reading what I wrote, can you(or anyone else) compare the 2 methods, and suggest advantages/disadvantages?

nadiatims wrote:

I remember trying ling-q several years ago for japanese, and I've used it a couple of times recently for Chinese but I just can't get into it. I have a lot of respect for Steve Kauffmann and I'm sure his system works well if you stick with it but overall it just seems like a limited corner of the greater internet, and buggy at times. With the existence of pop-up dictionaries and various flashcard programs I don't really see any advantage over just browsing the internet. Audio is nice I guess but I can't really be bothered listening to the same short lessons over and over, I prefer to work on my listening comprehension independently by watching youtube videos and listening to podcasts etc. Also beginner content isn't really necessary after the first few months I find. I pretty much jumped straight into authentic content with Chinese.

LingQ had audio and a translation back when I was using it. I suck at finding good/appropriate stuff on the internet, so it sounded great to me at the time. But it was really buggy, and like I said, I hated using my computer. Good comment about listening to the same stuff over and over. I prefer once or twice after I read. Some people like to listen while they read, and claim it does something magical to either their listening or reading comprehension, but I doubt it. The whole L-R theory is a crock, imo.

Do pop-ups do anything more than the ones on LingQ? Or are they better/less buggy in some way?

@leosmith: yeah, i didn't know what LingQ does it sounds pretty decent though.

I guess it would really depend on the quality of the content. What's it like?

Obviously, reading with rikaichan doesn't include audio, so that's one minus point (you can download audio for specific words, but not whole sentences). But, you can always use audiobooks + rikaichan (or Yomichan), television programs with subs, or news sites that have audio + transcript, if you really want audio with everything. Using audio definately has it's benefits (pitch accent, etc), though it's also good to just practise reading on it's own sometimes too i think.

So, yeah, i think it pretty much depends on the content of LingQ stuff, and how much you enjoy it compared to other stuff. Because beside that point, using either of them seems pretty much the same...

btw, i also agree with Nadiatims that appropriate level is overrated. If the level is too high for you, use the SRS, and it'll become a lot easier fast. But doing that all the time is tiring, and it's good to use level appropriate stuff too as it improves listening / reading fluency much more than stuff that's too difficult does. But if you're still a beginner, level appropriateness is either practically impossible, or a waste of time, so i think you've just got to suck it up and srs a bunch

Last edited by IceCream (2011 November 19, 1:33 am)

Just started reading ゼロの使い魔. Enjoyed the anime so I am enjoying the book so far, but I don't know several compounds per page and I still suck at grammar, so some lines are ambiguous to me. Hopefully this will change with time.

The majority of fluent people I have heard from on the internet reference books and reading as their main activity, so hopefully their is some correlation between reading and becoming better at the language. Its hard to grasp that reading and skipping parts you dont understand actually helps you learn anything though.

I find it comical how much of the brain is a mystery yet its the reason we know so much... or so little?

IceCream wrote:

Yeahhhh 死神の精度！！！ I'm glad you're enjoying it Splatted!!! This was my favourite so far. If anyone knows where to get more text files of, um, full length "reviews" of 伊坂幸太郎's works, i'll love you forever!!! ♥♥♥

It's my favourite too. Thanks for the recommendation.

Edit: And I second the promise of eternal love, if anyone waants mine.

Last edited by Splatted (2011 November 20, 3:41 pm)

Manji by Tanizaki was a good read.

chamcham wrote:

Now that the Kindle Paperwhite was released in Japan, please feel free to recommend any Japanese Kindle books.

I'm really enjoying 神世界より right now.

psychopatate wrote:

ダンス・ダンス・ダンス Dance, Dance, Dance
http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3460784
1Q84
http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3298946
ノルウェイの森 Norwegian Wood
http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3517129
スプートニクの恋人 The Sputnik Sweetheart
http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3517053
国境の南、太陽の西 South of the Border, West of the Sun
http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4261905
世界の終りとハードボイルド・ワンダーランド Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World
http://forum.koohii.com/viewtopic.php?p … 00#p194400 (Replay #9)

All in Doc or Docx or TXT ^^

You have to register on rutracker to download

If you find more, do share them

Ahh... those Russians! Nice collection of Haruki!