Posted your link Alexander. By the way, isn't there an online pitch dictionary? That would be of assistance too. It would especially help getting examples.

Well, I sure do wish more suggestions would come in before my break is over on Monday. I have all tomorrow to attend to site improvements. This place has been the only one thus far to have so many ideas. I do wish, in an effort to support a fellow Japanese lover, that you would all try to at least contribute hits to my site. Even if it is not for you, just going to the homepage helps statistically towards google ranking and what not for search results. My site times your session out every thirty mimutes, so if you want to help me out further please do so.

I do plan on trying to read some of the other discussions here to see if I could be of assistance.

Last edited by imabi (2011 November 25, 10:45 pm)

imabi wrote:

Anyone interested in Classical Japanese can check out my new lesson:

http://www.imabijapaneselearningcenter. … son142.htm

I'm pretty sure there aren't any typos or errors in it. But, since it is a new page, if you find any, please tell me. Thanks.

I'm definitely interested in classical Japanese but for now, only in terms of recognitions/understanding. Maybe you should make a keigo section? (敬語). I plan to master or at least, become more skilled at that soon( if possible). It all comes down to putting in the time.

My site has a new table of contents look! Everyone check it out and check out the poll question for feedback!

In Classical Japanese, it is mainly written in plain speech with honorific speech being the only other median. As you get closer to Modern Japanese, things like -masu and desu become more prevalent. I will be discussing honorifics in the near future in relationship to Classical Japanese. It is very similar yet different.

For example, the verb 罷づ isn't even used today. But, you can go to the 源氏物語 and see examples like

その年の夏、御息所、はかなき心ちに患ひて、まかでなむとし給うを、暇さらに許させ給はず。

Last edited by imabi (2011 November 26, 3:47 pm)

You're right. However, す was particularly used in the Nara Period but not limited to it, as far as the Keigo function is concerned. It was only honorific when paired with another honorific (supplementary) verb. So, that example you give would have had to be a double Keigo expression.

例えば：夜の御殿に入らせ給ひても、まどろませ給ふことかたし。

The same pattern twice in the same sentence.

Another good example would be 見奉り給ふ

I don't plan in making lessons on this soon. I need to get the essential syntax of 文語 covered first. I may get there by February at the rate I'm going.

I wonder if I should teach the auxiliary verb ふ in Advanced IMABI instead of IMABI IV? It's primarily seen in Nara Period contexts, but it is apart of many modern verbs such as

逆らう
語らう
移ろう
慣らう
計らう
向かう
踏まう

Although it is only limited to being a constructive elements of words and is no longer flexible in usage as a true auxiliary verb, it would be important to note. Course, it may just as well be more appropriate with other 奈良時代の話題.

Last edited by imabi (2011 November 26, 7:56 pm)

imabi wrote:

Could this place flood a ton of hits like it did the first day? It really helps my google ranking, and I think I've proven that my intent is respectable. It would mean a lot.

Here is something that might help you out:
http://webnet77.com/webstuff/tips.html

Oh hey, I'm totally interested in some classical japanese. It's recently piqued my interest, and yet I know next to nothing about it.

I'm going to take a look at it today or tomorrow and give you some feedback as someone who has no idea about classical japanese. And my grammar terms aren't that good either (lol auxiliary verb wtf?) so I might not be your intended audience

imabi,

If I were in your shoes, I'd put the new classical Japanese lessons on hold and focus on improving the quality of the existing lessons. Some of the information is still inaccurate, incomplete or not well presented. There's also other useful grammar you might want to include.

With classical, you're getting into a rather niche market. :-)  How about starting out with a resource for general learners which explains classical forms still existing in modern Japanese? When learners encounter classical forms that aren't easily searchable in their dictionaries or grammar books, such an online resource would be really helpful. I'm thinking of idioms, holdover grammar and "weird" archaic language in period dramas or games. Some folks might be interested in explanations of the classical derivation of current forms even if they have no intention of learning classical Japanese.

As for the existing lessons, if you're content to leave the content as is (which is still a great contribution!), then at least clearly state that the content represents your personal study notes (as you've explained here), includes examples you've collected, created and translated, and may contain errors. I wouldn't state that the site content has been reviewed by Japanese teachers. It's not fair to learners to imply that the content is correct. (I'm just stating more pointedly what others have already hinted at.)

Kitakitsune suggested you might think about whether IMABI is meant to be a grammar reference or a progressive textbook/course. This strikes me as great advice b/c they're very different things. Good textbooks may look simple, but there's often heaps of research behind every decision the authors have made.

If you want to promote IMABI as a course, I think you should take IceCream's advice and substantially rework some of the lessons. You might also want to read up on ways grammar is taught to get more ideas (ie. there's more to it than reproducing vague dictionary entries and provided egs containing stuff students haven't yet learned.) You might also think about the differences b/w the grammar Japanese are taught, the grammar foreigners are taught and the grammar linguists talk about.  Which are you trying to "teach" and why?

I personally think an online grammar reference might be the way to go. You wouldn't have to worry about cumulative knowledge, recursion or integrating content.  JimmySeal mentioned that a more in depth version of Tae Kim's site would be a welcome addition.  An online resource similar to  _Dictionary of Basic/Int/Adv Japanese_ would be fantastic. An English version of niwasaburo's grammar site would make a wealth of info accessible to beginners. You get the idea.

When questions about the language (like kanji reform) or specific points of grammar come up, it'd be great to be able to link to one of your lessons rather than trying to describe it here. (Some of that info already exists in your advanced section - the beginner stuff seems more problematic.)

So... I'm not sure you need to keep asking for more input. If you decide to improve the existing lessons, I think you'll have plenty to work on with the advice already given.

Last edited by Thora (2011 November 26, 11:46 pm)

There are actually quite a few instances in Advanced where Classical Japanese topics still relevant are mentioned. They are my prerequisites. Romanization is taken out for the Classical Japanese lessons at 140. I just put there for people to get use to Historical Orthography.

Don't get me wrong, the original lessons are still improved each day. I'm aware of Sino-Japanese words being more common in certain genres. It was a generic statement.

There is a lot of manufactured punctuation in classical text reproductions. I will address your points in due time. Thank you.

I did look back when I edited those points, and I noticed that the statements were qualified. It is set up toward you can't skip a section. So, in that way, it is set up as a textbook. I typically devote weekdays for editing current lessons ans the weekend for new lessons.

It is great idea to post links to the next lesson at the end of one. I will certainly do that when I get home. I also had to take down the Japanese script in the title of the website temporarily because it messed up on my iPad when I tried modifying another part of the template.

Last edited by imabi (2011 November 27, 8:48 am)

i have one more suggestion...

suppose i meet a き or けり form somewhere, and went to your lesson http://www.imabijapaneselearningcenter. … son142.htm
rather than learning things in order.

then i'm confronted with terms like Ren'youkei, Mizenkei, Meireikei, sa-hen, ra-hen, and ka-hen. (none of which i understand).

I'm assuming these have all been explained in previous lessons. It would be helpful if you could make all these terms into links to their original explanation (like Wikipedia would do) the first time you use them on every page.

It would make life a lot easier

just a suggestion for when you have time, and for future lessons. The other stuff is probably more important.

Just started looking at it today. Not sure how far I'll get, but one thing that could be pretty useful...

In the drop down menus, you have Lesson ##. That's alright, but how about have the title come up when you hover on it for a while? Kind of like the title attribute of an <img> tag? Like the hoverover text on an xkcd comic.