Also, I haven't read through the whole thread, so this may have already been mentioned, but getting an MA or PhD in Japanese doesn't just mean you take higher-level language courses. The so-called "grad-level language courses" mentioned in another thread are actually usually more like bibliography courses, teaching you how to locate information you need for your research using scholarly reference works, not actual language courses. As such, they're usually not open to undergrads, because they serve a very specific purpose. Most MA programs will also require a Master's thesis in addition to the coursework and language in order to graduate, so you can't just take some higher level courses during your BA and finish up with an MA too. Even if they don't require a thesis, they will probably offer a thesis option, which you should take if you have any intention of pursuing a PhD.

You have to do significant original research in your field (in Japanese studies, this could be history, linguistics, art history, literature, etc.) and write a book-length dissertation in order to get a PhD. The language itself is practically secondary. Japanese is just a skill that allows you to do the research, not a goal in and of itself. And your level has to be high enough so that your language ability doesn't get in the way of doing your research, which will consist of reading original documents, scholarly papers, etc.

You'll also probably need to learn either Chinese or Korean, and maybe even Classical Chinese depending on your specialization. You'll likely even be required to learn French or German (or both). These other languages are all for the purpose of keeping up with research published in those languages. And even if you're not required to learn them by the faculty at your school, you ought to acquire reading skills in these languages anyway if you want to be able to compete with your colleagues. If you've missed out on a key piece of research in French that renders your current research project moot and everyone else has read it, you will not get published and you will fall behind the rest of your colleagues as far as your knowledge of the field.

Keep in mind, too, that you won't be likely to earn any credit toward your degree for these language classes, because they, like Japanese, are secondary to courses in research methodology, seminars, reading courses (not reading in Japanese, but reading research related to your chosen field, mostly in English – think 400 pages a week or more), etc. Any language courses you're required to take are for the purpose of making up for your deficiencies, and so will be on top of your full-time course load.

You will usually have two or three years from the start of your PhD to pass your language exams for all of these languages (in addition to fulfilling your course requirements), or else be put on academic probation. After passing your language exams, you will have 6-12 months to read 100-200 key books in your field (as determined by your professors) before taking a qualifying exam. This "qualifies" you to be able to actually stay in the program and begin your dissertation research (as opposed to *possibly* being given a consolation MA and being asked to leave the university). On top of all this you will be teaching undergrad classes and getting paid either nothing or very little. Once you qualify, you will spend a few years researching and writing the dissertation. Many people who make it this far drop out without finishing the dissertation, because it's just too damn hard to continue on, or find funding, or whatever the reason may be.

Altogether you're looking at 4 years of undergrad work and probably 8-10 years of grad work, depending on the program, your research, funding, and any number of other factors.

This isn't to dissuade you from pursuing a PhD. It's so you know what you're getting yourself into. You can prepare by taking a minor in Chinese, for example, and trying to learn to read French or German (reading knowledge is enough). Buy a book called "Getting What You Came For" by Robert Peters, and one called "Graduate Study for the 21st Century" by Gregory Semenza. If your undergrad school offers a senior thesis option, do it. I wouldn't recommend going to the same university for undergrad and grad school, you'll only get one set of approaches to the field. And if you do go to the same place for your BA and MA, go somewhere else at all costs.

And please don't blame your awkward English on being "Texan". They teach the same standard of English there as they do anywhere else in the US. And your English writing skills will have to be formidable in order to complete any higher education, or even be admitted.

Wo, that was a lot of information out of no where. I was using my location to demonstrate local pronunciation of English phonemes in terms of strength and stress. Standard English is not really used outside of English, and colloquialisms are normally accepted when it isnt a serious assignment. That is how it is where I am.

I have been studying Korean and Spanish for a while now. I plan on picking up Chinese and French soon.

Last edited by imabi (2011 November 21, 1:00 pm)

squarezebra wrote:

Just be polite, thank the person for their idea (no matter how crap you think it is) and move on...

No-one is bad mouthing you... what you have done is admirable, but it needs a bit of work and people here are genuinely trying to help you. But don't forget, if you ask for people's opinons, you're gonna get people's opinions (both good and bad)

Good luck

I agree with this! Just say "thanks for pointing that out, I appreciate it" and so on (even if you already knew about it, or don't plan to change it!) ... and you'll get a lot more people gladly giving feedback and corrections.

I just had an idea. If you want people to proofread/check stuff for free, you could say that if someone thoroughly proofreads/edits a whole lesson for you, then you will mention them at the bottom of the lesson or something. E.g. Special thanks to ----- for proofreading this lesson.

Just an idea.

Would it be wise to make Lesson 4 Lesson 2?

No, you don't have to be that way. It was just so overwhelming to read and take in, especially since that part that discussion was over a month ago. I will most certainly keep it all in mind. Thank you.

Since it is my work, I do have the right to say no to something I don't want. But, I am honest in saying that I have fixed what everyone has mentioned rather than ignoring their request. Please review the comments and look at the lessons and you will see that that is true. I may have been rash a while ago, but I have made sure to not blow off needed criticism.

Well, I don't know what part of Texas you went to, but there is a lot of places to go to study the affect of dialect on the English language. A few pages ago I did jokingly use that as a way to poke fun at my English. But, the last time I used it I meant to demonstrate stress in consonants compared to Japanese. That is undeniably true, no?

Anyways, I think you need some nice cold water and then maybe a tea to soothe your nerves. Relax, it's the internet. I'm all ears to hear suggestions so long as they are civil.
たぶん、酒ょー飲みょーん？ワロタ

Music always helps. 향수뿌리지마 is a nice song. It makes me calm down. Whatever floats your boat. I really like working on my site, and it's something that I enjoy. So long as you give me something to do, I'll do it. I don't want my work to be in vain.

I will always be grateful for the traffic this place provides for me. I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been nice. I have made a habit to proofread my posts, and I will make sure to be as courteous as possible. I made IMABI to help myself too. So, please forgive me for its inadequacies. These and more I will try to fix in due time. All you have to do, and this is to you all collectively, is try to do your best to address what needs to be done. No money, just a thought or two.

Last edited by imabi (2011 November 21, 7:28 pm)

Will fix. Thanks.

As for the University of Texas at Arlington, I had the teacher look at my work when it was first getting started. So, there isn't any feedback that would really relate to its current form. As for the University of Hawaii, I was told that they would help me get it published if I got enrolled there. So, it obviously had its worth in their opinion. As for Yale, I was told that from my knowledge that I have portrayed in Japanese on my website would be worthy enough to test out of Japanese 1~5.

If you want the emails, I'm just not going to post them because other things are discussed. I would love to know what is factually inaccurate on my site because I want to fix things.

To answer your question specifically codex, I would say that it was both content and format in very general terms. Neither professors had the time to go into details. However, if a native Japanese person would be so kind as to review it for me, I would be very pleased. I have someone in mind, so the practicality issue in the examples may be fixed shortly.

Practicality has always been a problem for me in language. I readily admit that neither my examples nor my translations are practical 100% of the time. It is probably close to 75%. This has already been pointed out. It's a flaw in my style of writing that I'm trying to address as best I can.

Some of the inadequacies of my project is simply lack of experience and age. These two things are very important, but I can't wake up 30 tomorrow nor say that I have gone through college.

To what icecream said earlier, I have found someone that has no knowledge of experience and am starting to go through my curriculum with him. Just from him reading Lesson 1, there was a lot of notes and explanation that had to be added. So, the leaps will be closer to steps if you will.

However, as I have been made to read my analysis of pronunciation several times within the past few days, I have to say that I don't have anything wrong. The 5 vowels are, for anyone here, self-explanatory. Elongation and devoicing are known vowel qualities in Japanese phonology. Both are well-documented and easy-to-research topics. So, it would be actually harder to get these things wrong than right.

As far as pitch is concerned, my wording is almost word for word on what is on the wikipedia page; I didn't want to start a whole discussion about it. The entire point for that section was to address it. The examples I chose are verifiable. If it was the one thing in that page I knew I could get wrong, I modeled off of other sources.

As for my comparisons of consonants of English and Japanese, my take on how English consonants are pronounced are based from my own experience as an native English speaker. If you don't agree with a rendering, it's probably because are dialects are different. But, it's kind of hard to think of words that are spoken the same throwing the Anglo-sphere.

We may all have differentiating opinions on how to explain all of this--and after reading through some other threads on this site I know that everyone isn't on the exact same page in explaining things--but I don't think it should be a reason to just put a red stamp of disapproval. If there is a better way to word something, I am all for changing what I have, especially if it means the page becomes a better source.

Again, IMABI was my way of teaching myself, first and foremost. It is my source of notes for my studies for the past 2 years, and it's sure been a lifesaver for me whenever I've gotten stuck.

I do hope more advice will come out from this thread.

It's been a fun experience. We've gone through most of Lesson 1. I'm going to try to learn to never make assumptions on people's knowledge. I'm also asking other foreign language teachers at my school on how to approach things.

If you ever find something you don't understand, which I'm sure there are areas where I'm very vague, I can fix it.

I hope you do stay tuned in.

Very true. I hope it will get closer to that perfect guide for what you describe soon. Course, it has to be tested on people before the inadequacies surface. But, as I said, that is in the progress of being done. One thing that I have done to go on what you're saying is removing most of the material about the auxiliary verb -zu and putting it in the Classical Japanese section where it belongs. I always knew that the lesson was not in the right place. It's just that I couldn't really put it anywhere else until now. At least I won't have any more people scratching their heads at it as they have in the past. Having put it in Advanced IMABI has been the biggest mistake in making the curriculum.

My English teacher says the longer you teach the better you get. I must say that when I first started this, it was much worse. So, I'm sure that in another two years it will be the most solid and cohesive guide to learning Japanese.

I've been in the process of trying to gather everything. Although it is true that I have used resources to help me, by no means have I arbitrarily copied verbatim. That is plagiarism. I already got dictionary and book resources posted.

As I go through the site with my friend from the ground up, the alterations that I make will make it only more unique. So, by the time it'll be ready to be in book form 2 or 3 years from now, it will be hard to say it is from something else, especially collectively.

I do understand what you're saying though. Don't get me wrong. As you said, anyone can paraphrase. If I wanted to simply do that, I could have all my resources typed up and the information categorized in pages very quickly. It certainly wouldn't have taken me two years. The biggest problem I had learning was that I didn't find out everything at once. Like that forum about particle problems, I had a person I was acquainted with long ago that didn't know that the particle to could be used for anything but "and". I would say most self-taught learners that I have ever met are in the same boat.

I do believe I should claim copyright. What happens to it when all of the changes proposed happen? It will be even more unique. Even my small English assignment of 5 pages had a work-sited page; however, none of it was plagiarized. That said, 5,000 pages does need a resource area. All of this is being made or has already been made. On the one side, my statistics teacher got copyright approved for a set of notes he compiled for our textbook. All of it is paraphrasing, but it is in a way that many teachers and students ask for them and pay for them.

Well, of course, everything besides our intuitions and instincts is learned. What I want to say is that after I do post as many of the sources I can think of, would it be right to be made to have "EVERYTHING" listed. A lot of these lessons I actually did write from pure memory on sheets of notebook paper. Yes, someone can easily find an essential phrase or sentence somewhere else. It's a language. Around 40% of the site is solely what I know. A lot of the lessons were made in this fashion:

1. Not good at the topic myself.
2. Research and take simple notes.
3. Takes these notes and begins typing.
4. Retypes everything constantly after a for days or weeks of preparation.
5. Even after publish is pressed, goes back every other week for 2 years.

These 5 steps really makes it unique in my opinion. It's what makes it so great. I honestly don't know what materials I could have possibly used for a lot of the site. I'll most certainly put the works I know.

Thank you for your advice. I will have what you want up in no time. I just gave a few other things to think about that you may shed more light on.

Last edited by imabi (2011 November 23, 8:44 am)

Citing your sources isn't to cover your ass for plagiarism, it's to show that you're credible and that you've done your homework. From an academic point of view, every claim you make should be backed up by a source -- be it by citing something that somebody else did, or by doing first-hand research, ie experiments in a science field.

You're still in high school, so you probably haven't had to write papers along this line yet, but you'll see. I think the point that squarezebra was trying to make is that if you want to get brownie points in an academic field, you should make it a little more academic by citing your sources.

No, I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I see that you have a list of book and internet resources. That's great for a "here's where you can go for more" or "here's some books I've read," but it's not academic.

Take a look at Wikipedia (not academic, yada yada... It fits the purpose):

Japanese (日本語 Nihongo?, [nihoŋɡo] ( listen)) is a language spoken by over 130 million[3] people in Japan and in Japanese emigrant communities.
...
3. ^ "Japanese Language". MIT. Retrieved 2009-05-13.

In this case, they got the information that it's a language spoken by over 130 million people from that article over at MIT.

So, how can you incorporate sources into something that you wrote off the top of your head? This was often the hardest part for me when writing papers. One good example I saw where you could do it was here: http://www.imabijapaneselearningcenter.com/lesson2.htm

Note: Names in addresses are written in Katakana (Lesson 3).

東京都中央区八重洲一丁目５番３号
Toukyou-to Chuuou-ku Yaesu Itchoume Goban Sangou
Tokyo Prefecture, Chuo Ward, Yaesu Neighborhood, 1st city district, building number 3.

Now, let's pretend that address format is something completely new to me. Why should I believe you that this is correct? You could have a link to the Japanese postal service or something, where they have the official address formats. This is kind of a silly example, but do you see what I mean?


You've got an awesome resource that brings together a lot of information. If you wanted to get any sort of academic recognition for it though, you'll need to make it more academic. If I were you, I wouldn't bother with it, because I think it's fine how it is. If you want to use this knowledge to get academic credit for it, then write something later down the line with citations -- this is a learning resource, not a dissertation.