nadiatims wrote:

The problem with nest0r was their frequent inability to actually explain their ideas with any clarity or brevity. So much of what Nest0r wrote was overly verbose, longwinded and ultimately vague. And constantly pointing people to go read articles written by other people during debates strikes me as intellectually lazy.

I'm not one to kick a man when he's down, but I agree with this statement. Alot of nest0r's more scientific posts seemed to me to be deliberately abstruse; an attempt to win arguments or boost his e-prestige by sheer bafflement.

That said, I did like Nest0r's more relaxed posts; could be very humourous at times (as seen in that "ask magamo" thread linked above).

Last edited by aphasiac (2011 September 18, 5:37 am)

@Surreal: i think, if that was what nest0r was actually doing it would have been more valuable.

The thing is, there's a big difference between speaking as objectively as possible, and believing that what you're saying is the ultimate truth and everyone else is wrong. There's a number of members of this forum who DO try to speak objectively... you, Tzadeck, Blahah, Yudan, pm215, magamo, etc. who are also prepared to listen to other points of view and understand where they're coming from, as well as learn things from posting here, and i find these discussions 1000% more useful.

Since Nest0r foxblocked my posts, i'm not too worried about kicking him when he's down or anything, it's not like he reads my posts anyway. And i guess this is part of the problem, for me, that he does things like that. He literally blocks other people's thoughts once he's disagreed with them, and assumes everything they say will automatically be not worth listening to. That, along with his apparent impossibility to consider his own views as fallible, and plenty of times i've seen him miss the point of various pieces of research, or other people's opinions, ultimately made me less respectful of his opinions in general. It makes me wonder what he's blocking in research terms too, and whether he actually reads things to reconfirm his own beliefs rather than refine them.

Anyway, i'm sorry i somehow managed to start a hate-fest, that wasn't my intention at all. I just meant to say to the other poster that i don't think Fabrice acted particularly badly... taking a time out isn't so bad when you get overheated in an argument. I know i need one sometimes!!!

Last edited by IceCream (2011 September 18, 6:27 am)

It's not cool to speak ill of a forum member in a public thread for people who miss him, especially when that person isn't around. How about keep it to yourselves until he comes back? If you really don't want him here, you can say so directly to him when he's back or post it on your I-hate-nest0r google+ circle or something so only people who want to hear bad things about him can hear you. His attitude may have been annoying to people who argued with him, and I too got annoyed for the same reason others said about how he doesn't listen to others. But maybe no one deserves being trashed in a public place in his absence just because he gets on your nerve.

By the way, OP, you might want to edit your post if you're talking about illegal access to academic journals.

magamo wrote:

It's not cool to speak ill of a forum member in a public thread for people who miss him, especially when that person isn't around. How about keep it to yourselves until he comes back? If you really don't want him here, you can say so directly to him when he's back or post it on your I-hate-nest0r google+ circle or something so only people who want to hear bad things about him can hear you. His attitude may have been annoying to people who argued with him, and I too got annoyed for the same reason others said about how he doesn't listen to others. But maybe no one deserves being trashed in a public place in his absence just because he gets on your nerve.

I agree.

Last edited by EratiK (2011 September 18, 7:27 am)

magamo wrote:

It's not cool to speak ill of a forum member in a public thread for people who miss him, especially when that person isn't around. How about keep it to yourselves until he comes back? If you really don't want him here, you can say so directly to him when he's back or post it on your I-hate-nest0r google+ circle or something so only people who want to hear bad things about him can hear you. His attitude may have been annoying to people who argued with him, and I too got annoyed for the same reason others said about how he doesn't listen to others. But maybe no one deserves being trashed in a public place in his absence just because he gets on your nerve.

yeah, fair enough. it's definately not constructive, either. Fabrice probably should close this thread...

i also hope we can get back to normal soon!!!

yudantaiteki wrote:

This is degenerating into a mean-spirited thread; I don't see the need to take pot-shots at posters who aren't here (by choice or not) to defend themselves.

My impression is that any thread that dtcamero gets involved in turns mean spirited, but that could just be a coincidence.  ;-)

CJ

IceCream wrote:

yeah, fair enough. it's definately not constructive, either. Fabrice probably should close this thread...

I personally disagree with Fabrice having to close threads "like this one". He's nobody's mother and we shouldn't call him to solve the problems we create by ourselves. I guess he has much more important and productive things to do.

If a thread isn't "productive", then just stop checking it, nobody is forcing you. I checked the anti-Kathzumoto (or whatever he spells his nickname) one until I realized it was a total waste of time that could be well wasted in more pleasant activities. I think the administrator shouldn't waste time and mental energy babysitting the users.

i also hope we can get back to normal soon!!!

As Neo-Gandhi would say: "Be the change you want for the forum."

If you don't like the general direction the forum is taking, then just don't row into that way. The rest will fade in time anyway, so why worrying so much about it?

Peace and love for all. Now stop wasting your time in futile discussions and do something either productive or fun (you get brownie points for doing both at the same time).

I like nest0r and bodhi.

IceCream my negative comments are never directed at you!

Perhaps not cowardly, but considering the point of the thread I think it's definitely not the place for people to air their grievances.

Last edited by Blahah (2011 September 18, 8:53 am)

＾＿＾　thanks Blahah!

ah, i meant more general negativity anyway though... there's been quite a lot around lately, so...

hahah must!stop!reading!

right, next, some fresh air. that's something i haven't felt in a while

Last edited by IceCream (2011 September 18, 8:56 am)

I've learned from this thread that English really needs a non-gender specific third person pronoun.  Luckily Japanese doesn't have this problem.

Everyone is talking about Nestor and Bodhi's awful violations of forum guidelines, but as far as I know, they didn't resort to making personal attacks on their opponents.

Things did get a bit heated and yes, Nestor pulled no punched when it came to criticizing SS , but I don't see him/her using ad hominem (personal attacks) or insults. Here are some of his most offensive posts:

Nest0r wrote:

"it's definitely a ripoff. Exploiting new learners with false promises and bad methods in an overpriced system with zero accountability."

Nest0r wrote:

"Didn't you already write this comment? Making baseless accusations and projections caricaturing other users. Maybe you should try calming down and sticking to just assessing the system/arguments rather than attacking people. Of course, this is a brief moment where I'm not ignoring you and tokyostyle (didn't you leave this thread ages ago, multiple times?) so this recommendation isn't for my sake."

Nest0r wrote:

For example Tefhel, to me, basically everything you wrote is a highly subjective and highly negative and one-sided ad hominem. You're making anonymous accusations of hypocrisy that are unfounded, justified only by your snide caricatures.

Nest0r wrote:

Keep in mind that after 15 or so pages of the above, I think it's pretty reasonable that some responding anger has leeched into even our comments, but nevertheless you won't see us personally insulting you or caricaturing you. For example, I stated you were being one-sided, negative, subjective, and snide. I didn't say you were spitting in our faces, blathering on and crying and this and that.

Nest0r wrote:

No, you didn't hurt my feelings. I simply expect that when someone pops in to voice their insulting opinions, they have some justification for them. Unfortunately when confronted with this request, you are unable to provide it. Not a single quote or rationale. So I am fine with you holding your tongue in the future, unless you want to post something more mature and rational.

So Nestor, tried to remain polite and mostly kept attacking his opponents' arguments. I think he got some people angry because he dismissed his opponents' arguments as completely worthless and uninformed. I understand how this can be frustrating, but when you see the kind of personal insults that go on in other forums or even in this one, it falls well short of being truly offensive or inappropriate IMO.

Meanwhile , just in this thread, we have disgraceful comments by Ginmanm and dtcamero attacking Nestor and Bodhi personally:

Ginmanm  wrote:

I for one am glad he left once he snapped back into reality, realizing his epeen was nothing more than a delusion. The same goes for blood (who cares how its spelled).

It's true though that they (Bodhi especially) tried to continue the discussion on SS when they should have stopped and Fabrice gave him a fair warning.