Methods used by the fluent(ish)

syntoad Member

From: Amagasaki Registered: 2006-11-05 Posts: 49

This place is full of ideas, both good and bad. And definitely full of tons and tons of methods for studying Japanese. I am curious about success stories though. So many posts have methods that sound good, and of course their proponents say they work great for study, but I would love to hear from people who have actually learned to speak Japanese using a specific method (or combination or modification, etc.,) as in a decent level of fluency. (I will trust you on your definition of fluency or speaking)

I don't need a full breakdown of your method, just the name (Movie method, AJATT, 2001KO, etc) or a short summary if the method you used isn't quickly found by a search. Even if you learned Japanese through traditional books classes, I want to know!

JimmySeal Member

From: Kyoto Registered: 2006-03-28 Posts: 2279

My method:
RTK. Then read a lot. Talk to people.

Worked for me.

nadiatims Member

Registered: 2008-01-10 Posts: 1676

Mass vocabulary study (like 15k plus) and a lot of reading and listening. As for vocabulary learning I've gone from anki to paper flashcards, back to anki and now I've settled on wordlists in notebooks as most effective for me.

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dizmox Member

Registered: 2007-08-11 Posts: 1149

First I went Genki I > RTK + Tae Kim > 6000 sentences (~8000 words) from Smart FM

Then I went to Japan for 3 weeks and got some speaking practice. After that I learnt about another 7000 words over the next year, while chatting to friends online on MSN/skype everyday and reading random stuff occasionally (but less than I should).

After that I went to Japan for another 3 weeks again, came back, learnt about another 10,000 words and continued the same routine as previously.

All throughout this I watched plenty of anime/listened to Japanese music every day. Just crammed all the vocab and RTK by rote via Anki. No special techniques here! But using IM every day from the start is invaluable.

I think I passed JLPT1 this July (I hope) but I still have some ways to go. I still need to improve on my speaking and verbal keigo ability which I've sidelined until I'm in Japan. My reading is good but it just needs to be a little quicker. I've never written an academic/formal text and I've forgotten how to write by hand.

Last edited by dizmox (2011 September 09, 2:32 am)

jessui Member

From: Tokyo Registered: 2008-06-16 Posts: 26

Variety/music shows. This is one of the biggest things that has helped my Japanese ability, in both speaking and listening. Listen to the conversations and interviews closely, and pay attention to the subtitles in Japanese. Notice people's reactions and how they respond to different situations/questions. Look up any unfamiliar words, and write them down if they are useful ones you want to remember.

The conversation is not scripted (the situations and overall topics, yes, but the conversation itself is often very spontaneous), which makes it a more useful tool for learning natural Japanese as it's really spoken than, say, dramas (don't get me wrong, I love J-dramas too )

wccrawford Member

From: FL US Registered: 2008-03-28 Posts: 1551

Vocab study and reading. Lots and lots and lots of reading.

Last edited by wccrawford (2011 September 09, 4:14 am)

Fillanzea Member

From: New York, NY Registered: 2009-10-02 Posts: 534 Website

Tons and tons of reading. Living in Japan for a year in situations where I was required to function in Japanese. I followed a pretty traditional pattern of classroom study in HS/college, which made a good foundation, but I made it to the top of my classes because of lots of lots of reading. (My speaking/reading comprehension aren't nearly as good, because the time I had been able to devote to Japanese was before the days of ubiquitous drama torrents... but anyway).

Also patience. This is a long game no matter how you play it.

mezbup Member

From: sausage lip Registered: 2008-09-18 Posts: 1681 Website

RTK - Tae Kim - KO2001 - JLPT2 Grammar Study (using Dictionary of Japanese Grammar anki deck and unsuspending just the sentences for the grammar points I needed).

After that pure vocab building with Anki. Learned 10k vocab in 2010 and a further 7k~ this year.

The whole 3 years have been immersion as much as possible (AJATT style). All music is Japanese, only watch Japanese tv, most my friends are Japanese. English is spoken only when necessary (though there's still a fair bit of English in life due to living in an English speaking country).

Tonnes of reading, tonnes of watching drama, tonnes of talking to people and having fun.

Overall, I just enjoyed the language so much I stayed close to it as possible at all times.

AlexandreC Member

From: Canada Registered: 2008-09-26 Posts: 309

dizmox wrote:
First I went Genki I > RTK + Tae Kim > 6000 sentences (~8000 words) from Smart FM

Then I went to Japan for 3 weeks and got some speaking practice. After that I learnt about another 7000 words over the next year, while chatting to friends online on MSN/skype everyday and reading random stuff occasionally (but less than I should).

After that I went to Japan for another 3 weeks again, came back, learnt about another 10,000 words and continued the same routine as previously.

All throughout this I watched plenty of anime/listened to Japanese music every day. Just crammed all the vocab and RTK by rote via Anki. No special techniques here! But using IM every day from the start is invaluable.

I think I passed JLPT1 this July (I hope) but I still have some ways to go. I still need to improve on my speaking and verbal keigo ability which I've sidelined until I'm in Japan. My reading is good but it just needs to be a little quicker. I've never written an academic/formal text and I've forgotten how to write by hand.

What's the timeline? How long did all this take?

AlexandreC Member

From: Canada Registered: 2008-09-26 Posts: 309

wccrawford wrote:
Vocab study and reading. Lots and lots and lots of reading.

How does lots of reading lead to oral fluency?

AlexandreC Member

From: Canada Registered: 2008-09-26 Posts: 309

syntoad wrote:
This place is full of ideas, both good and bad. And definitely full of tons and tons of methods for studying Japanese. I am curious about success stories though. So many posts have methods that sound good, and of course their proponents say they work great for study, but I would love to hear from people who have actually learned to speak Japanese using a specific method (or combination or modification, etc.,) as in a decent level of fluency. (I will trust you on your definition of fluency or speaking)

I don't need a full breakdown of your method, just the name (Movie method, AJATT, 2001KO, etc) or a short summary if the method you used isn't quickly found by a search. Even if you learned Japanese through traditional books classes, I want to know!

Did you mean to include or exclude people who learned while living in Japan?

Personally, I'm also interested in hearing people's success stories, but only if they achieved fluency without living in Japan.

ta12121 Member

From: Canada Registered: 2009-06-02 Posts: 3190

Majority of people in this forum and me have been using RTK method, then sentences,grammar and eventually vocabulary cards. And non-stop immersion or at least a lot of it. These will build up your reading/listening skills to a high level. And it will eventually help increase your speaking skills to the next level(immersing helps you duplicate how people speak,how they say it,etc).

Then there is writing which most people find unimportant but personally I'm working on building that up too.

TwoMoreCharacters Member

From: Sweden Registered: 2010-07-10 Posts: 480

AlexandreC wrote:
wccrawford wrote:
Vocab study and reading. Lots and lots and lots of reading.
How does lots of reading lead to oral fluency?

Um, are you referring to pronunciation and speed etc here?

AlexandreC Member

From: Canada Registered: 2008-09-26 Posts: 309

TwoMoreCharacters wrote:
AlexandreC wrote:
wccrawford wrote:
Vocab study and reading. Lots and lots and lots of reading.
How does lots of reading lead to oral fluency?
Um, are you referring to pronunciation and speed etc here?

Yes -- how would you reach "a decent level of fluency" without "pronunciation and speed"?

JimmySeal Member

From: Kyoto Registered: 2006-03-28 Posts: 2279

AlexandreC wrote:
wccrawford wrote:
Vocab study and reading. Lots and lots and lots of reading.
How does lots of reading lead to oral fluency?

A large vocabulary and a strong familiarity with sentence patterns are the most essential parts of oral fluency.

TwoMoreCharacters Member

From: Sweden Registered: 2010-07-10 Posts: 480

AlexandreC wrote:
TwoMoreCharacters wrote:
AlexandreC wrote:
How does lots of reading lead to oral fluency?
Um, are you referring to pronunciation and speed etc here?
Yes -- how would you reach "a decent level of fluency" without "pronunciation and speed"?

Well this is where the fact that everybody has their own definitions of fluency comes into play. Of course you need to practice speaking to develop your pronunciation and speaking ease and such, but I'd personally say that even if you sound weird you can still "be fluent" in the language as a whole.
If, thanks to input, you know the language to the point where you understand everything and always naturally know what to say (and how to say it correctly without having to think), I don't think you need to hold back on calling yourself fluent because you haven't practiced your pronunciation yet.

Last edited by TwoMoreCharacters (2011 September 09, 1:06 pm)

AlexandreC Member

From: Canada Registered: 2008-09-26 Posts: 309

JimmySeal wrote:
A large vocabulary and a strong familiarity with sentence patterns are the most essential parts of oral fluency.

Those are no doubt important in knowing the language well, but oral fluency requires a degree of efficacy in speech production, and "familiarity with sentence patterns" is not, in itself, going to allow you to string together a well-constructed sentence on the fly or put together several sentences to explain a point with only minimal hesitation.

JimmySeal Member

From: Kyoto Registered: 2006-03-28 Posts: 2279

@AlexandreC
Well, your question was "How does lots of reading lead to oral fluency?" and the answer is that about 80% of language proficiency (including spoken) is a thorough familiarity with the sentence patterns and vocabulary. The rest is just practice. I don't think wc was trying to imply that reading alone was sufficient to be able to speak at full tilt, but it is enough to get you most of the way there.

Last edited by JimmySeal (2011 September 11, 7:19 am)

dizmox Member

Registered: 2007-08-11 Posts: 1149

AlexandreC wrote:
dizmox wrote:
First I went Genki I > RTK + Tae Kim > 6000 sentences (~8000 words) from Smart FM

Then I went to Japan for 3 weeks and got some speaking practice. After that I learnt about another 7000 words over the next year, while chatting to friends online on MSN/skype everyday and reading random stuff occasionally (but less than I should).

After that I went to Japan for another 3 weeks again, came back, learnt about another 10,000 words and continued the same routine as previously.

All throughout this I watched plenty of anime/listened to Japanese music every day. Just crammed all the vocab and RTK by rote via Anki. No special techniques here! But using IM every day from the start is invaluable.

I think I passed JLPT1 this July (I hope) but I still have some ways to go. I still need to improve on my speaking and verbal keigo ability which I've sidelined until I'm in Japan. My reading is good but it just needs to be a little quicker. I've never written an academic/formal text and I've forgotten how to write by hand.
What's the timeline? How long did all this take?

It's been 2 years since I finished RTK now.

AlexandreC Member

From: Canada Registered: 2008-09-26 Posts: 309

dizmox wrote:
AlexandreC wrote:
dizmox wrote:
First I went Genki I > RTK + Tae Kim > 6000 sentences (~8000 words) from Smart FM

Then I went to Japan for 3 weeks and got some speaking practice. After that I learnt about another 7000 words over the next year, while chatting to friends online on MSN/skype everyday and reading random stuff occasionally (but less than I should).

After that I went to Japan for another 3 weeks again, came back, learnt about another 10,000 words and continued the same routine as previously.

All throughout this I watched plenty of anime/listened to Japanese music every day. Just crammed all the vocab and RTK by rote via Anki. No special techniques here! But using IM every day from the start is invaluable.

I think I passed JLPT1 this July (I hope) but I still have some ways to go. I still need to improve on my speaking and verbal keigo ability which I've sidelined until I'm in Japan. My reading is good but it just needs to be a little quicker. I've never written an academic/formal text and I've forgotten how to write by hand.
What's the timeline? How long did all this take?
It's been 2 years since I finished RTK now.

How long has it been since you first started studying Japanese?

Last edited by AlexandreC (2011 September 09, 3:05 pm)

dizmox Member

Registered: 2007-08-11 Posts: 1149

I went through Japanese for Busy People I about 4-5 years ago but didn't do anything between that and doing Genki I 2.5 years ago, so 2.5 years really.

mezbup Member

From: sausage lip Registered: 2008-09-18 Posts: 1681 Website

AlexandreC wrote:
Personally, I'm also interested in hearing people's success stories, but only if they achieved fluency without living in Japan.

I learned it to fluency without ever going to Japan (went first time just the other day). Im also pretty interested in people's stories who did it without living in Japan. Personally I would have rather done it in Japan but I had no choice so I just did what I could with what I had and it's worked out beautifully.

On the flipside I met a guy who lived in Hokkaido for 4 years on the JET program and can only say konnichiwa in a heavily foreign accent. Goes to show it's not about where you are but what you do and who you do it with.

dizmox Member

Registered: 2007-08-11 Posts: 1149

mezbup wrote:
I learned it to fluency without ever going to Japan (went first time just the other day).

Does this include speaking?

mezbup Member

From: sausage lip Registered: 2008-09-18 Posts: 1681 Website

dizmox wrote:
mezbup wrote:
I learned it to fluency without ever going to Japan (went first time just the other day).
Does this include speaking?

Of course. You couldnt really call urself fluent in Japanese if you couldnt speak it. I could speak it fluently after about 2 years and it just slowly improves as my vocab continues to expand. Been studying intensively for 3 years now.

howtwosavealif3 Member

From: USA Registered: 2008-02-09 Posts: 889 Website

It really is AJATT. Before it was do stuff in Japaense when I run out of fun stuff to do in english and NOW it's like I have no time to watch anything in English because I have too much crap I want to watch that's in Japanese. It's same with books lol.... because I found some Japanese authors that I REALLY LIKE (so glad I found them... cause the first book i read was a bore and just plain hard to read even for japanese people I would assume) . same with music but I 've listened to american music for 10 years before I started japanese so honestly I'm sick of american music and I won't try listening to it for probably another 10 yrs IF I get sick of japanese music. but probably by then i would be into some other tyopep of music in some other lanaguge lol.

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wccrawford wrote:

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dizmox wrote:

mezbup wrote: