I think everyone knows that, for the most part, people in the service industry don't show their true feelings. Nevertheless, good service is good service, regardless of whether those providing it were honest or not.

I'm sure the person who wrote the post referred to in the OP would hesitate to commend disrespectful waiters for their honesty. Just imagine if the staff at every restaurant and hotel outpoured their emotions like the guests on Oprah. That would be hell.

The best part of being in Japan is getting people to show their true feelings.  It's like a game to bring out the human side everyone has.  The OP is wise in saying Tokyo is not like the rest of Japan.  I think any big city such as Tokyo, New York, Ottawa, London, etc. are each their own country.

I don't think that deeds like holding the door for someone have to do with human courtesy. How necessary are these really? Do you think the person behind you will actually have problems opening the door? : )

Human courtesy happens when you are actually helping people who are in need. In my experience Japanese people actually do go out of their way to help their friends when necessary, even going as far as ditching their work/school for friends. That being said, most other cultures do that as well so I wouldn't say that Japanese are necessarily more "courteous" than others, but certainly not less.

But I agree that there is a lot of Tatemae, but that's a matter of culture, not a matter of human courtesy. But I totally understand how someone can be put off by that, especially in a working environment where people are extremely nice to you face-to-face but once you leave the room they'll start to talking crap about you. Too common. I guess that what the author really wanted to say, I don't think he was talking about customer service.

I don't get the fuss.. I get to reinforce the English Gentleman stereotype everywhere I go because I hold doors and say thank you to people lol.
I wrote a paper last year on Japanese society especially the whole inner/outer group thing, which politeness is part of. It makes sense if you view it the way they do, but coming from a different culture.. yeah it's odd. 

What made me laugh recently was reading a few messages between a couple of female university students I know.  One older girl (by 1 year, she's 19, the other 18) entered the conversation and the younger girls typing completely changed.  Sempai this.. Sempai that..  bearing in mind the girl who was only 1 year older is probably on a worldwide scale  about 12.. when compared to other western cultures and maturity. So it's not like the language changed because it was someone to look up to, purely because she was older.  Just seemed to alien to me. Speaking so different to someone because they are one year older?

aphasiac wrote:

Even if it doesn't actually hit them, slamming a door on someone is pretty rude in all cultures surely?

I wonder what culture my parents are from, hm..

Or because here we don't wear masks out in public to prevent infections from spreading to other people, we're being rude. No, it's just not part of our culture.

I think it's rude.

I wish it were part of our culture... I'm going to buy some masks when I'm next in Japan and wear them when I get ill next. That will spark a trend.

After visiting Japan, I got the impression that people were extremely polite. I'd rather have a fake politeness than have to deal with the shit public in the U.S. I thought it was incredible how people in Japan are capable of forming single file lines at stores, train stops, etc; how they form two lines on the escalators (one for standing and one for walking); how the store clerks greet people and say thank you for everything almost everywhere. At shrines and temples, little figurines/statuettes and offerings often laid out (sometimes even money). If that were left outside in the U.S., it'd be gone so quick. I can't even garden without the ticks and leeches robbing me blind. Yeah, much of the time I was in touristy areas, but toward the end of my trip, I stayed in slummy areas to save cash (it was 1350yen a night at one place in Osaka). The only real difference I saw was that there were more homeless people and the food was cheaper. Overall, in Japan, I felt much more relaxed in public. People stared, but they weren't staring me down.

They were just friendly. I'm back in the U.S. now, and just yesterday, I went to a Twins game with a friend. There was a scalper on the street selling tickets. We had just been talking about whatever, and we were both smiling. The scalper made a motion at my friend like he was trying to make him flinch and said something like "what'chu smilin' at, you goofy ass." It's ridiculous. People in the U.S. tend to be real defensive and are always on edge. It's pathetic and disgusting at the same time. The second I got back into the U.S., I saw the differences immediately everywhere I went. At a bookstore, I was looking through the magazines and a store clerk told me, "You're in my way, and I need you to move," and she had plenty of room. Never was I welcomed, and never did I see anyone smile. Now, not everyone in the U.S. is like this, but it is something that I see too much of. If it weren't for this shit political, economic, social environment, I doubt I'd be as focused in my Japanese studies as I am. I can't wait to escape.

I've lived in Japan for a year now and I honestly don't see any difference in overall politeness between here and my hometown. (Currently live in Kofu-cho, Tottori - Hometown: Flint, Michigan in the interests of full disclosure) I think people are just polite in different ways. There are goblins and angels everywhere. I honestly don't know where people get off saying Americans as though it were an undisputed fact of nature just because of some bad experiences with store clerks whose family may have died the night before in a tragic blip accident or a homeless guy who's probably been dejected and laughed at every day for the past five years. The same things happen here. I've a friend that was spit on for nothing more than accidentally going in the wrong (for yet unknown reasons) door to a bar. We could sit down and spend a week recounting horror stories of rude people in both cultures and come to no conclusion.

Japanese politeness seems very focused on not inconveniencing others, whereas American politeness comes from going out of your way for others.  That's just my own theory.

So, Japanese people don't really do things like hold open doors, or pick up something that someone else dropped.  Actually, Japanese people sometimes seem pretty confused when you hold the door for them.

When I was back in America I was in Florida, and I failed to hold the door open for a girl I didn't know (who, to be fair, was pretty far behind me).  She said "Thanks, that was really nice" is a very sarcastic manner, haha.  I tried to explain that I live in Japan and...

I figured it'd be universally suckage to have a door come back at you when you try to go into the doorway.

caivano wrote:

I have experienced a lot of kindness in Japan (probably partly due to being foreign)

You should try being Chinese or Korean.

I used to be quite negative towards the robotic lack of personality in Japanese customer service... until I went back home.

After a year of studying abroad in Osaka, interacting daily with Keigo-ridden Japanese clerks, I was happy to finally go return to Canada and have an casual conversation with my waitress - who proceeded to try on my sunglasses without my permission. It was such a shocking and welcome exchange, it made me happy to be back in Canada.

I was happy happy happy, until I started to realize that those friendly and sociable customer service agents are few and far between. Regular service, in Canada, is alright, but lacks the refinement and professionalism that comes with the Japanese 店員. Bad service, (which I have never experienced in Japan after living here for 2 years) on the other hand, can be so bad that you are left infuriated by the little teenage punk kid that just served you coffee.

Currently, I am living in Japan again as an ALT, and I have gotten past the veneer of some of the 店員 in my town, and have even developed friendly relationships with a few. One woman who works at Lawson knows that I hate oden, but jokingly insists I buy some everytime I walk in. She then gets me to teach her random English words, such as; [cash register] and [moth]. Another dude at the store looks absolutely ecstatic whenever he serves me. It`s a nice feeling!

In the end, it is possible to get past the tatemae of store clerks. It just takes more time than back home.

I am not saying Japanese customer service is better than Canadian, or visa-versa, but they both do have their good points and bad points.

Just accept, understand, work with it, and move on!