What should I do after RTK?

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Reply #1 - 2011 June 13, 9:43 am
Revenant Member
From: Germany Registered: 2010-10-09 Posts: 42

I've read many posts, I've read all of AJATT, I've had japanese classes before and I have several textbooks at hand.
I'm looking for direct and personal advice on what I could be doing, so I don't overwhelm myself and fall into a big hole of uneffectiveness.
I am aware that I still have to find out what is working for me, personally.
I'm really just craving for directions, because the amount of possibilities is crushing.

What I really want to know is, how do I go about learning Japanese after finishing RTK I?
I do have a decent listening comprehension or "passive vocab". I find grinding througha grammar book teaching me how to order pizza and how to adress my "host family" not effective for me.

There is dozens of Anki decks, like Core2k/Core6, combined variants and other sentence decks. I'm completely lost there. Should I start with one of those and learn sentences?
Should I rather go through a textbook and "copy".. sentences/vocab with kanji into a new Anki deck etc.? I only used Anki for very basic reviewing, have no idea of tagging functions and whatnot. I can open the program, open a Deck, review and maybe edit a card. I don't really know about "suspending certain cards" or "editing/adding fields".
Should I review from Kanji-sentence to meaning/reading(in hiragana), or the other way round, or both - how would I do that?

Basically, I want a clear, defined and effective task. What is working best for me, I can't tell yet. But I don't wanna start several dozen Anki decks only to kill everything in the end resulting in frustration.

Here's a basic list of what I currently use/have at hand as learning ressources/possibilites:

- Anki with Japanese language support; basic comprehension of the program (No Decks yet; should I make my own sentence-deck? How to review? Any great shared decks? I don't wanna be beaten to death by 500000 facts stuff; what about core2k/core6k and/or fusion decks of them?)
- RevTK-Website (Doing RTK I reviews; later possibly going to 3007 Kanji, maybe switch to Anki deck later)
- Tae Kim Grammar Guide (Useful sentences to be mined here? How? How to SRS them effectively?)
- Genki I & II Books + Workbooks + CDs (How to make use of them? Wokring through ordering pizza is kinda... also, everything full of furigana, I wanna learn how to read for real!)
- I currently use Denshi Jisho as a quick dictionary
- Firefox equipped with Rikaichan
- MP3-Player; Lots of Japanese Media for immersion
- Pen&Paper
- A Printer

I've heard about Kanji Odyssey for example, what is it about, would it be good for a start or should I rather be doing x.. of y.. first to then...
This kind of stuff would help a lotta!

Thanks for your patience; I know there's a lot of great Threads around, but those seem to drag me from one to the other side and leave me confused about what to do.

I want to start doing and stop thinking about what I could do, or should be doing.

Reply #2 - 2011 June 13, 9:46 am
Tori-kun このやろう
Registered: 2010-08-27 Posts: 1193 Website

Just.. do.. it. Take core6k and do it. Don't think too much about it. Just get it, do it. I can't emphasize it enough, since I wasted basically two months with thoughts like yours. JUST DO IT!

Reply #3 - 2011 June 13, 9:55 am
Daichi Member
From: Washington Registered: 2009-02-04 Posts: 450

What seems to be working for me is Nukemarine's Core2K/6K decks doubled with Subs2SRS sentence decks with the morphology plugin. The plugin lets me focus on just simple sentences based on the words I've already learned in my Core2K deck. Currently I'm reading through sentences from a Clannad deck I made and I find them easy and far from boring.

Anyway, Like Tori-kun says, pick something that feels like it will work for you, and just do it. If it's not working out, that's when you worry about what to change. Just do something and do it today.

Last edited by Daichi (2011 June 13, 10:00 am)

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Reply #4 - 2011 June 13, 9:59 am
ta12121 Member
From: Canada Registered: 2009-06-02 Posts: 3190

Tori-kun wrote:

Just.. do.. it. Take core6k and do it. Don't think too much about it. Just get it, do it. I can't emphasize it enough, since I wasted basically two months with thoughts like yours. JUST DO IT!

haha, best advice. Just do it, don't wait and think about it too long and just get at it.

Reply #5 - 2011 June 13, 10:09 am
Revenant Member
From: Germany Registered: 2010-10-09 Posts: 42

Thank you, that's the kinda stuff I wanted to hear!
I've tried out Core2k when smart.fm was still available and am interested in it.

I ain't wanna be the foo' (god, those damn Mr. T stories...) wasting a lot of time and getting frustrated just because I'm not doing anything and instead just wonder about what it should be.

It is just that there is so many Core2k/Core6k decks in anki... I wanna choose one that's "right" (with advice how to get the audio rollin'). I believe "Nuke" has something about this somewhere here..

I'd probably start out on the "correct" core-deck and still maintain my little "own" deck where I add whatever I please (=what interests me, vocab and sentences I picked up somewhere).
I have no experience in creating my own Deck and cards tho. How should the formate be to be effective etc..

Reply #6 - 2011 June 13, 11:05 am
Kuma01 Member
From: The Netherlands Registered: 2011-02-07 Posts: 120

Grammar plus cramming vocab. I guess you could also mine sentences like the AJATT people but imo it takes way too long and it's not worth it. Japanese has a pretty simple structure so once know enough vocab you'll be able to read and understand most of it.

Reply #7 - 2011 June 13, 12:41 pm
Tori-kun このやろう
Registered: 2010-08-27 Posts: 1193 Website

Kuma01 wrote:

Japanese has a pretty simple structure so once know enough vocab you'll be able to read and understand most of it.

Well, can't confirm that completely, but, indeed, something like 6000 vocabularies is already a huge mass, when you think of that you will not only learn new cards but have tons of reviews as well. That process will take long. Meanwhile - that's my experience - having some Tae Kim Grammar in between wouldn't do any harm, but give you an overview of what Japanese is like. I assume you will spend time out of Anki and will recognise more and more parts or even whole sentences you will "grasp". Good luck (and start now.)

Reply #8 - 2011 June 13, 12:45 pm
mlorenz Member
From: Canada Registered: 2008-06-22 Posts: 43

I'm with Revenant on this:  looking for a better way.  After completing RTK a month or so ago I wasn't quite sure what to do next.  I started doing the first Core2k6k Basic deck, then switched over to the Japanese Core 2000 decks (JC2000), but right now I'm not too happy with my progress on the latter.  I've learned some new words, yes, but I feel like I haven't learned as many as I could have, given over a month's worth of effort.  I've restarted Nukemarine's deck (after some minor tweaking) and am planning to use that as my primary.  Seems to me that you cover more words in less time with that one, whereas the JC2000 deck reviews the same word multiple times in different ways.  I guess my feeling is, if I could manage 10-25 new kanji a day with RTK, I should be able to do the same with vocabulary too.

Reply #9 - 2011 June 13, 1:01 pm
aphasiac Member
From: 台湾 Registered: 2009-03-16 Posts: 1036
Reply #10 - 2011 June 13, 1:22 pm
Revenant Member
From: Germany Registered: 2010-10-09 Posts: 42

It's a list of tools, not how to use them. Would still probably download one of the other versions of core2k6k. Should I be watching J-Drama? SRS every line? Only every useful line? What "Is" useful? More than 3 kanji-readings in a single sentence can be overkill on the SRSing part.
Should I cram through Tae Kims guide? SRS all example sentences? Or just do one chapter or the other while reviewing core2k6k? (Assuming I got the correct Deck).

I can see he linked to something going over some of these points, but as this topic keeps popping up there seem to be a lot of peopel still feeling rather lost in the vast ocean of possibilities.

"Beginner - JLPT 4 equivalent level
Kana using Remember the Kana; an Anki Deck is available
RTK using 2001KO 1-555 Kanji; an Anki Deck is available

Tae Kim - Basic
Core 2k step 1&2 sorted; an Anki Deck is available
Subs2srs 1 hour of an easy drama/anim"

-> So, what I get is that I should learn the Kana, of course I have them long under my belt before I started RTK. I don't get what 2001KO means, but I suppose it is learning the kanji which I did already.
Go over the basic points in tae kim -> okay, so there's a deck covering the example sentences given in those basic chapters? Sonds like a plan, really.
Subs2srs... never tried before... prolly need to work into this.


If he somewhere describes which Decks to get (for example "start with deck ___ to get started with Tae Kim's Guide and get ___ (core2k6k) for the first xxx sentences) I'd be happy.
I can see that he says for Beginners to do Steps 1&2 of Core2k, does he mean any of the decks available? There's small decks with only steps, there's huge fusion decks... for SRSing a big one would be preferable to plan reviews.


I guess what Nuke did is pretty awesome and helpful, I'm just not completely getting the right picture here quite yet.

Let me give you a more visual impression of what's going on:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14 … 01mel.jpg/


Edit: In the meantime I think I found the correct Decks provided by Nukemarine, and also one gigantic merge-deck.
I guess I'm supposed to only load the beginner deck, work with it and later go over basic to intermediate. What he means by importing Decks to save the Anki servers from global warming is yet beyond me tho.

Last edited by Revenant (2011 June 13, 2:06 pm)

Reply #11 - 2011 June 13, 2:28 pm
kainzero Member
From: Los Angeles Registered: 2009-08-31 Posts: 945

Revenant wrote:

I ain't wanna be the foo' (god, those damn Mr. T stories...) wasting a lot of time and getting frustrated just because I'm not doing anything and instead just wonder about what it should be.

i don't think anybody has ever wasted time studying with any method given here.

i've said this like a thousand times but people are always looking for ways to optimize their studying and you reach a break point where spending that much time to be "more efficient" actually hurts you because you're not studying.

Reply #12 - 2011 June 13, 2:44 pm
Kuma01 Member
From: The Netherlands Registered: 2011-02-07 Posts: 120

i've said this like a thousand times but people are always looking for ways to optimize their studying and you reach a break point where spending that much time to be "more efficient" actually hurts you because you're not studying.

This. After RTK I spent like 2 weeks barely doing anything and looking for the best way to progress, in the end I just started doing the core 2k and Tae Kim's grammar guide, which I should've just done from the start. There's no way to know beforehand how well something will work for you since everybody learns differently, I'd advise you to stop focusing so much on short term results and to just stick with something. I can guarantee you it pays off in the end.

Reply #13 - 2011 June 13, 2:47 pm
Revenant Member
From: Germany Registered: 2010-10-09 Posts: 42

It wasn't my intention to imply that any of the given study methods were a waste of time, but merely the act of thinking about what to study itself.

In the meantime I managed to get the audio and image-files for the core2k/6k to work, using nukemarines core for beginner deck. I think I even understand what he meant by joining now: After finishing with the beginner, I can dl the basic pt. I and import it into my beginner deck, which would simply grow with the additional facts -> Media remains the same.

I just know from experience that everything new like this, especially after such a long (for me) study period with RTK takes some time to get used to.
I now wanna figure out how to properly study and review these cards -> What is the task I am supposed to do? Do I write out the example sentence from hearing the audio or is the fact really just about the word presented on the front... etc..
+ I got the tatoeba plugin which presents me with a lot of exampel sentences everytime.

Last edited by Revenant (2011 June 13, 2:48 pm)

Reply #14 - 2011 June 13, 7:06 pm
Daichi Member
From: Washington Registered: 2009-02-04 Posts: 450

Revenant wrote:

It's a list of tools, not how to use them. Would still probably download one of the other versions of core2k6k. Should I be watching J-Drama? SRS every line? Only every useful line? What "Is" useful? More than 3 kanji-readings in a single sentence can be overkill on the SRSing part.

You probably should be watching any anime or drama that you enjoy, raw or with preferably with Japanese subtitles.

As far as what is useful? N+1 is what is useful. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

(I already specified this next part, but I'll clarify.)

You can make a subs2srs deck with the Japanese subtitles for the show and you can use the morphology plugin to make sure you have N+1 sentences. I'll be honest, it's a complete pain to setup, but I really think it's worth it.

As for Core2K, I think it's best to focus on the vocab word, I just worry about writing and understanding the meaning of that. The sentence helpful for context on the similar sounding words. (I actually added the audio for the vocab word to play right before the audio for the sentence, So I don't need to look at the screen to know what I'm being tested on.)

Anyway, good luck.

Reply #15 - 2011 June 21, 7:21 pm
Revenant Member
From: Germany Registered: 2010-10-09 Posts: 42

I found Tatoeba a useful tool, searching for words and getting sentences; some are too complex, but useful stuff can be found easily. (http://tatoeba.org/)


Maybe I'm overdoing it with some of the longer stuff, but if I know the kanji and basically have not that much trouble understanding the meaning of the sentence..

N+1 would be nice, but N+2 or 3 isn't impossible either^^

Still finding it hard to follow longer sentences, but understand them if I give it a little time. Guess this will settle with time, like everything.

Last edited by Revenant (2011 June 21, 7:22 pm)

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