use of the memory palace technique

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Reply #1 - 2011 May 26, 11:52 pm
Texie New member
From: Sweden Registered: 2008-05-13 Posts: 7 Website

I just finished reading "Moonwalking with Einstein", written by the journalist Joshua Foer and recent champion in the USA Memory Challenge contest. All these memory champions use similar methods for memorizing vast amounts of material, like 85,000 digits of pi or whatever. One of these methods is the memory palace. It is a spatially-based visual memorization technique (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_of_loci). As such it ought to be completely compatible with the Heisig-story-key word method. Is anyone out there using it for memorizing Japanese vocabulary words? If so, can you give me an example of how you do it? I am up to word 1130, i.e.,  110 words per month. Really, this needs to go faster. So I want to explore other memorization techniques, such as the "memory palace".

Reply #2 - 2011 May 27, 3:41 am
Javizy Member
From: England Registered: 2007-02-16 Posts: 770

Are you using SRS? You don't need a particularly good memory to learn a lot of words with Anki. You just need time and motivation. If you are using it and it's taking a long time, try evaluating the way you review. I spend less than five seconds per card after the initial learning phase. You can't completely learn most words with SRS anyway, so it's important to get it out of the way so you can spend extra time reading and gaining other exposure, where you'll really start to absorb the words and their usage.

Reply #3 - 2011 May 27, 7:10 am
Splatted Member
From: England Registered: 2010-10-02 Posts: 776

I read an article in the newspaper by that guy, and like you I became interested in the techniques he used and whether they were applicable to learning vocabulary. I initially decided that the memory palace method as he described it in the article probably wasn't particularly useful because it relied on the order of the items, but now I think about it, I'm not sure that is the case. I did take a couple of useful things from it though:

Firstly, what he said about increasing the speed of memorisation seems very useful. For those that don't know, what he said was basically that you just need to force yourself to do it faster; if you need ten seconds to memorise each fact then set a timer for 9 seconds on each one, and eventually you'll get used to doing it at that speed. This also seems to answer the question of quality vs quantity in memorising things.

The second thing that caught my attention was the use of pre memorised images to represent numbers or combinations of cards. This is pretty much exactly what we're already doing with Heisig, but it really brought home to me how widely applicable these techniques are. I haven't actually done it yet, but I figured it would be worth creating images to match the sounds in the Japanese language, since we're going to be memorising thousands of words. It would be easy to build it up Heisig style and start off with images for individual sounds like か, and then combine them in to compound images, eventually creating a single image for strings of sounds, like あたま。 You could then combine them with the images you have for the kanji to make a single image for the word.

As I said, I haven't done that yet. In fact, I've been really lazy and only occasionally done anything more than repeat words until they stick; as Javizy said, you don't really need to do this if your using an SRS, but I've found that sessions in which I make an effort to use mnemonic techiques have always been more productive. It is important, though, to make sure that you're using the mnemonics to speed up your learning, rather than "taking the time" to make a mnemonic for each word. Edit: The lazyness refers to the exta brainpower involved in creating images, not the amount of time spent on each word.

As I haven't gotten around to makeing images for the sounds yet I use another method for memorising them; just think of a word that the japanese reminds you of and use that a bit like a stepping stone to reach the Japanese. For example, 石炭, the word for coal, is pronounced せきたん. This sounds a bit like "sexy tan" to me, which works perfectly with the kanji to reveal that a pice of coal is a stone that's got a really dark sexy tan, and I have a really strong image to go with that.

Edit: While reviewing I remembered why I didn't bother making images for all the sounds; the limited number of readings for each kanji kind of take care of this for you.

Last edited by Splatted (2011 May 27, 6:20 pm)

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Reply #4 - 2011 May 29, 10:12 am
jseverns New member
From: Missouri Registered: 2011-02-01 Posts: 2 Website

A lot of people do use the memory palace method, though more often for readings than for writing.

Look up "Kanji-town" in Google for one example. Rather than use a palace the guy uses a town, with each spot in the town corresponding to a certain reading. He then populates each of those spots with the appropriate kanji.

Some people use movies for their memory palaces. I've read about one guy who uses video games.

I'm not sure how well it would work for the writing of kanji, which is what RtK1 focuses on. Writing is a more complex task than reading and although it is dramatically simplified by Dr. Heisig's method, I don't know how you could nest one memory aid inside of another (a Heisig story inside a memory palace).

Might be worth trying, though.

Reply #5 - 2011 May 29, 10:36 am
Gingerninja Member
From: England Registered: 2008-08-06 Posts: 382

I saw a guy do this once using the level editor in doom as a way of memorising, he'd make a level run through it and at each point he'd think of something and then whenever he had to recall things (ie PI. which i believe it was)  he would remember the numbers as he navigated his level in his head.

Reply #6 - 2011 May 29, 7:34 pm
nadiatims Member
Registered: 2008-01-10 Posts: 1676

Considering that language learning is largely an exercise in getting things into the long term memory, I think these kind of memory hacks (and possibly also SRS) are completely unnecessary and would likely result in spending more time per word than just allowing repeated exposure over time to do the job. Just by reading/listening with a dictionary/translatiuon and/or flash-carding vocabulary in bulk you can get comprehensable exposure to a huge amount of vocabulary, and then words enter the longterm memory based on frequency of exposure thereafter (importance). Rather than concentrating on memorisation to long-term memory of x new words per day, I believe it's more important to frequently expose yourself to new words and their meanings be it through comprehensible input or dictionaries or translations or whatever. Once you learn to trust your brain's subconscious ability to retain this information effortlessly based on its relevance and usefulness I believe you can start saving massive amounts of time. Think of all the different kinds of things you remember in life, faces and expressions, voices, places, routes through cities, song lyrics, your mother tongue, movement of your body. How much of that did you use forced memorisation techniques to remember? The subconscious brain of humans and presumedly animals which deals with memorisation and sensory data is capable of remembering huge amounts of information effortlessly if it is just allowed to do its job. The conscious brain capable of abstract thought that we think of as uniquely human is in many ways much less powerful. The conscious brain is capable of abstract thinking such as mathematical calculation and so on, but from a raw data perspective this is much less complex a task than for example making sense of the world via the visual system, recognising faces, navigating efficiently through space and so on. These are the kind of tasks the brains of living creatures have evolved for over billions of years.

Last edited by nadiatims (2011 May 29, 7:37 pm)

Reply #7 - 2011 May 30, 1:50 pm
brianobush Member
From: Portland Registered: 2008-06-28 Posts: 241 Website

nadiatims wrote:

Considering that language learning is largely an exercise in getting things into the long term memory, I think these kind of memory hacks (and possibly also SRS) are completely unnecessary and would likely result in spending more time per word than just allowing repeated exposure over time to do the job. Just by reading/listening with a dictionary/translatiuon and/or flash-carding vocabulary in bulk you can get comprehensable exposure to a huge amount of vocabulary, and then words enter the longterm memory based on frequency of exposure thereafter (importance).

I think the variety in study techniques keeps it interesting for some and more approachable. And it may help traverse barriers to learning.

Last edited by brianobush (2011 May 30, 1:50 pm)

Reply #8 - 2011 May 30, 1:58 pm
brianobush Member
From: Portland Registered: 2008-06-28 Posts: 241 Website

Gingerninja wrote:

I saw a guy do this once using the level editor in doom as a way of memorising, he'd make a level run through it and at each point he'd think of something and then whenever he had to recall things (ie PI. which i believe it was)  he would remember the numbers as he navigated his level in his head.

A blog entry about using level-editors as memory palace
http://mnemotechnics.org/video-game-mem … -2119.html

Reminds me very much of Kanjitown.

One could also use minecraft, though the time spent (or wasted) might be quite significant.

Last edited by brianobush (2011 May 30, 2:10 pm)

Reply #9 - 2011 June 02, 2:57 am
Texie New member
From: Sweden Registered: 2008-05-13 Posts: 7 Website

Javizy wrote:

Are you using SRS? .

I guess I am confused. What is the difference between SRS and what I am doing now with the bar graphs on this page (koohii.com)? I thought the review system on the Koohii site is a type of SRS.

Reply #10 - 2011 June 02, 2:58 am
Texie New member
From: Sweden Registered: 2008-05-13 Posts: 7 Website

Javizy wrote:

Are you using SRS? .

I guess I am confused. What is the difference between SRS and what I am doing now with the bar graphs on this page (koohii.com)? I thought the review system on the Koohii site is a type of SRS.

Reply #11 - 2011 June 02, 3:07 am
Nagareboshi Member
From: Austria Registered: 2010-10-11 Posts: 569 Website

Anki, Mnemosyne etc. are just stand-alone applications, while this page uses an SRS-algorithm, but other than that there is no difference. Except that you can create your own flash-cards with your stand-alone app. smile

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