I understood Heisig's method to be to use images/stories that are vivid to oneself. If they happen to come from a religious background, then so be it.

Anyway, if Heisig's stories aren't your cup of tea, have a kanji coffee instead. Plenty to choose from here

I wasn't at all offended by the references to Christianity, despite not sharing the faith. I was actually highly amused by Heisig's casual references to obscure figures such as the Prophet Jeremiah and St Boniface. Ironically this made it easier to remember them.
The good Professor is after all, a religious scholar and his personality comes through quite strongly in some of the stories. Now, as for that Mulberry tree story . . .

When it's 1 am and you have 10 more kanji to learn for the day, you're not going to care as long as the stories work. I'm more annoyed at some of the very abstract stories he comes up with that are almost impossible visualize.

I personaly like the "refrences to christianity". For example, that made "judas tree" quite an easy piece of cake. In the west christianity has influenced for so long a time that you don't have to explain who Judas is and imagining Judas hanging himself with the ivy is quite a lively (or dead..) image. Why get annoyed at the guy when he's using images that everyone knows just because it's christian?!

I don't mind if someone gives me a story with Sidhartha Gautama in it. I might not get all the nuances thought..

Or the dragon images just because the dragon is the devil.

Whatever works is good enough to use!

Any way..

Cheers!

Last edited by alantin (2007 September 17, 7:31 am)

First post here, just couldn't resist.

It's not like he only used Christianity, he mentioned Buddhism, some mythical stories and legends and so many other things, plus I don't think you have to be a Christian to know the stories he used.  Until I saw this thread, I didn't really assume that Heisig is Christian.

Plus there's tons of stories here that you can use, be creative. Use what works for you.

sutebun wrote:

Did Judas hang himself? I don't know. Someone says this is something that everyone knows; I do not. I don't know Christianity much. (Though, in credit of the Judas example, I know who Judas is and that story wasn't hard to visualize)

After betraying Jesus, Judas felt ashamed of what he had done and committed suicide by hanging himself on a tree. I don't think it's expected that everyone knows this. (Did someone say that? I missed it...) But if you do know it, it makes it very easy to remember the kanji. Actually, the name kinda comes from that story....

wikipedia wrote:

This small, sparsely branched tree is said to be the one from which Judas Iscariot hanged himself after betraying Christ, but the name may derive from "Judea's tree", after the region encompassing Israel and Palestine where the tree is commonplace.

There were some stories of his that used references that I didn't get. But they didn't offend me. I looked them up and if it still wasn't clear, I just made another story.

Last edited by PrettyKitty (2007 September 17, 11:39 am)

sutebun wrote:

It's that not everyone has a christian background and the stories are not clear to everyone.

But he can't hit the mark everytime, and whichever stories he would use I'm sure there would be someone who wouldn't have a clue what he is referring to.

As for the stories with religious background, you can change the story, but you can also look into it. I did that everytime, I don't know why people first think of changing the story? After all, religion is a huge part of our history.

I looked up all Heisig's references on Google and learnt a few things along the way. Interestingly, even if it seems complicated at first, if you read a bunch of background on the story (as in the "sulfur", and "nitrate" kanjis, or the "reform" kanji), you end up remembering it easily.

This reminds me of when I was a kid. Here in Belgium you have to choose between "moral" and "religion" for your children; "moral" is the course for atheists (another religion !).

My adoptive parents didn't really believe in god or anything, but  they sent me to  religion "because they teach you to be nice" or something of that affect.

As it turns out, as a kid, I loved it, because we heard stories and stories and stories!

Nobody ever asked me to believe them, and I don't consider myself a christian, still I remember reading a bit of the Bible sometimes purely for my enjoyment, and later as an adolescent when I chose myself the course I chose "religion" again because the "moral" course was just so incredibly boring.

Turns out once again my "religion" teacher was a great guy, who actually cared about his class and whatever wisdom he could pass on to his students.

This to say, a story is a story..

meolox wrote:

Am I the only one who is annoyed by the christian imagery used in some of Heissig's stories?

I know it's few and far between but couldn't Heissig have been a bit more considerate in realising not everyone is a christian.

Am I the only one annoyed by the spelling of Heisig with a double "s"?  

I feel a bit like Fabrice, I liked the opportunity to learn something new when the references (or the keyword!) sent me to wikipedia to learn.  I don't know about anyone else but I could spend days reading Jewish folklore.  It falls in the same category as Greek mythology, some very interesting stories waiting to be discovered.

I am curious to know if stories from any other religion are as offensive to you as Christian ones.  Anyway, if it does offend isn't that a good thing?

James W. Heisig wrote:

The aim is to shock the mind?s eye, to disgust it, to enchant it, to tease it, or to entertain it in any way possible so as to brand it with an image intimately associated with the key word.

Jarvik7 wrote:

There are of course some other basic stories that many may know if they have been to church somewhat regularly, but Heisig used some characters I've never even heard of despite going to a catholic school.

I'm not Catholic, but quite of a few of his "Christian" stories didn't register at all on my radar. On the subject of the Judas tree: isn't that why it's called a freakin' Judas tree? At least, in English, obviously.

I had issues with a good few of Heisig's stories: if you don't like them, then don't use them.

Since I had never heard of the Judas-tree before RTK, I'll just call it by its other non scientific name - the European Redbud That said, the association with Judas did make it more memorable. I pictured a diseased "evil/spooky" tree wrapped up in vines. Judas, however, may not be the source of the name for the tree... Looks like some folk etymology at work:

History:
There is a longstanding myth that Judas Iscariot hanged himself from a tree of this species. This belief is related to the common name "Judas Tree" which is possibly a corrupted derivation from the French common name, Arbre de Jud?e meaning tree of Judea, referring to a region where the tree occurs.

"The Little Train That Could" is a fairly well known children's story, at least in North America among people my age (and older?). I don't know what stories kids are told nowdays.

Last edited by Jarvik7 (2007 September 17, 11:09 pm)

I also had no idea what "The little train that can" is or what "blue chip" meant, we need localised versions, ok maybe not.

Localised versions!!! \o/