Haha, yes I agree, just do it, although it's really not as scary as the photo suggests.  Really.   It looks fun, though--weeeeee!

If you have RTK1 and anki, then you're all set.  You need pen and paper, too.  Also, I would suggest learning the kana, and then start learning grammar.  Build up your vocabulary, too, if you want.  RTK1 does not really need to be done on its own.  Maybe just make sure that the other activities don't cut too much into your RTK1 time.

Even if you don't do any new cards at least do your reviews. Stay Consistant until you are comfortable ramping it up. Being Consistant will get you farther faster.

I disagree with the sticking-to-the-Heisig keyword idea, since you can easily customize keywords on this site or @ home with Anki.

Use Halpern's keywords instead, they are more accurate. Dr. Heisig - despite his genius - is no lexicographer.

And do away with one keyword per kanji: you want to deal with polysemy as early as possible and you need multiple keywords for some kanjis. It  helps disambiguate glyphs with homosemic primary meanings.

It also solves the problem of the near-synonyms that Dr. Heisig chose to adopt to keep up with his rule of 1 different keyword per kanji. This was clearly wrong, as it often introduced nuances in English meanings that were totally spurious in the kanjis.

One last thing: you know that RTK does not teach you Japanese, don't you? It is just astonishing to me to hear of people that expect to be able to read books in Japanese after RTK. RTK is just the first step on a long, long road.

EratiK wrote:

I think that's a rather confusing advice. If I had had to rate my knowledge of several keywords everytime I drew a kanji, I would probably still be doing the thing. See, you're bringing up context when the idea is to learn the basest form/morpheme possible. That's against the spirit of the method (counterproductive).

Not at all, and you are totally ignoring my point about synonymy. Multiple meanings makes story-smithing much easier, and if you look closely, Dr. Heisig himself encourages polysemic references for several glyphs: ri <-> computer, and many others. It is therefore part of the Heisig method, and is certainly not counterproductive. Sooner or later, you will have to learn those extra meanings, so better to familiarize yourself with them at an early stage. The availability of spreadsheets with Halpern meanings makes the idea very easy to implement.

Okay, my last post for this thread. This is getting tiring. It is impossible to offer advice on this forum without being immediately misinterpreted and contradicted by Peter, Paul and Mary.

Look at the stories for 曲. You see that many story writers are aware this has a dual meaning: "musical composition" and "curve". If you look at these stories, they easily incorporate both meanings and are neither overly complicated nor long. You can do it in one sentence only.

All I am saying is to type "MUSICAL COMPOSITION" and "CURVE" in the bloody "CUSTOMIZE KEYWORD" box. This will not cause you to finish RTK1 in 10000 years, nor will it violate the spirit of the method, nor will it cause your brain to melt of exhaustion, because this is what Dr. Heisig himself is doing when he suggests to link 与 ("BESTOW") to an extraneous meaning of "SLINGSHOT".

Then you'll thank yourself for two reasons: A) you'll have two meanings instead of one to play with if you encounter the same glyph in a later kanji (which will facilitate story writing - a fact I experienced first hand), and B) when you'll study real vocabulary, you'll know how to disambiguate the meaning from the context. Much easier to do than to learn that what you thought was "BEND" could actually mean "MUSIC"! Whaaaaat???

Is that more clear? Signing off now.

Thank you to those encouraging me to just get cracking. I'm certainly looking forward to it.

I think some debate about these things is good. People such as myself want to know the opinions more experienced people have before devoting hundreds of hours to something.

I saw other people point out two issues with using Halpern's keywords elsewhere on the forum -- they are not unique, and they are not always as memorable. louischa, if I've understood you correctly, you're suggesting that you should use multiple keywords instead of trying to avoid duplicate keywords for kanji with similar meanings?

Some people seem to think it is worth a few minutes of extra effort (searching Katsuo's great spreadsheet) to just patch up the most glaring inconsistencies. I'm still somewhat interested in this, but I don't want to end up in the situation where I can't just "study another 20 kanji" because doing so would require me to sit down and mess around with searching a list of keywords to choose better ones etc.

Also, if I did use different keywords, is it possible that I'll run into problems later on e.g. if I am using a shared Anki list?

I suppose I should ask the following questions:
- Has anyone here successfully completed RtK using alternative keywords from the start, and can say that it has helped them in the long run?
- For those who have successfully completed RtK with the original keywords, did you have much trouble adjusting to alternative meanings later on?

And louischa, yes, I realise I won't be able to just read Japanese after completing RtK.

codebeard wrote:

- For those who have successfully completed RtK with the original keywords, did you have much trouble adjusting to alternative meanings later on?

Short answer, no.

Just keep in your head that kanji aren't words and heisig keywords aren't meanings (although they're pretty good most of the time). Smack through RTK as quickly as you can (without burning yourself out) and move on.

louischa wrote:

Okay, my last post for this thread. This is getting tiring. It is impossible to offer advice on this forum without being immediately misinterpreted and contradicted by Peter, Paul and Mary.

Hey dude, I was just pointing out my own opinion, I'm not here to convert anybody. It's not my fault if your ideas are opened to criticism; that's what a forum is all about.

All I am saying is to type "MUSICAL COMPOSITION" and "CURVE" in the bloody "CUSTOMIZE KEYWORD" box. This will not cause you to finish RTK1 in 10000 years, nor will it violate the spirit of the method, nor will it cause your brain to melt of exhaustion, because this is what Dr. Heisig himself is doing when he suggests to link 与 ("BESTOW") to an extraneous meaning of "SLINGSHOT".

Well that's debatable, and in my perception of RTK, the more simple the better. But that just my style. Plus your Heisig example is poorly chosen, since bestow and slingshot are two different symbols (additional stroke). Polysemy only applies to identical signifiers.

It's something a beginner would have to figure out on its own (I was pretty much set after kanji 750)(original keywords). Because over 2000 kanji, you'll see for yourself what works and what doesn't, and you can always adapt. For example, I did most of the (few) changes on the go. Some keywords (especially the primitive ones) won't seem fit to you. It takes less than 2 minutes to find a better one (even less if you consult an etymology or lexicography list), and another less than 2 minutes to see if it doesn't pop out later. Some say it breaks the flow, but others say they welcome the break. You can only find that out through practice. Good luck!

Last edited by EratiK (2011 April 21, 4:40 am)

codebeard wrote:

- For those who have successfully completed RtK with the original keywords, did you have much trouble adjusting to alternative meanings later on?

No, not at all, the keywords are meant to fall away anyway. I did change many of the "primitive meanings" names, though. Just be careful if you plan on doing that. If you change a primitive elements name, you will have to use it in later stories as well, if a kanji contains the same primitive element. For instance 使う the left part is called "person" by Heisig. You can change the name to Mr. T if you like. Or you can name it after one of your parents, or your girl / boy / best friend. Just remember to use the "person" in all the stories that contain that "primitive element."

And as the others have told you already, just do it, and don't worry. It is easy as 1, 2, 3. Start with 一 This is the roman number 1, lying on the side, which is written from left to right. And work your way up to the magic number 2042. Or, what i would suggest, do the supplement as well - containing the new list of official use kanji.

There are not many mistakes you can make, you can easily make them without even noticing it. So if you are uncertain about something, ask, ask, ask! Even if you think it is a stupid questions, ask, ask, ask! And have fun, because it is a fun process, once you get the hang of it. And it is also one of the easier parts of learning Japanese, making yourself familiar with the writing of kanji.

Last edited by Nagareboshi (2011 April 21, 6:18 am)

IMO, the only keywords you'd have much use of changing are noted by the community in the story section.