DON'T
Try to aim for a huge goal.
Burn out.


DO
Have fun and challenge yourself. Manage energy by doing both.

Aim for constant, slow improvement.

One thing which wouldn't be advisable is to get sucked into Japanese learning forums and blogs for the social aspect, as it can very easily become something which instead of spending too much time reading about Japanese, instead of studying; you may end up spending too much time reading about reading about Japanese, and end up two entire paradigm shifts behind were the productive and enjoyable aspect of Japanese takes place: learning, comprehension and progression.

One thing which I would advise, based on whatever anecdotal experience I could offer, is to try not to look at goals as big linear routes, but try to get heavily involved in very small, even daily goals, which not only feel rewarding but allow you to think "I've done this, now how I can I use it and what do I want to do next". A thousand small goals is far more physiologically rewarding a large singular goal, which can easily become overbearing and detached from your original ideals.

Also, it would also be not advised to look towards others for a sense of value in your studies (or anything, for that matter) and yourself as a reflection of progression, because unless you're fortunate and know people who honestly care about you, most people aren't going to appreciate the hundreds of hours of effort put into learning another language. Allow one-sided response, such as comprehending more of target language media, be like that person telling you at the end of a hard day: "I think what you're doing is a good thing, and you should continue it. Here is something you didn't understand last month, but will enjoy more now.　頑張ってね無名氏じゃなくてあなたは要人ですよ！"

I have, in song lyrics. You'll also encounter it often when looking up Shamisen&folk songs, obviously. I've only ever seen it with the うた reading.

I also have some kanjis for which I learned the common readings rather than words containing them(mainly because they're not commonly encountered). It has its uses. I also drill reading-only these days since I noticed I make some mistakes with readings... However, I agree that learning all of them this way would be time-consuming, tiring and pretty boring.

Edit: Just thought of a mistake... Don't think that just because someone else hasn't encountered a term, or because you personally think you'll never encounter a kanji/term, it is not worth learning. I assumed that of the alternative kanjis for numbers (壱、弐、参、etc) but I've ended up encountering them in both anime and books, for example. Similarly, I've encountered words normally written in kana in kanjis and was completely lost... It all depends on what you want to do with the language, and what kind of media you end up exposed to.　Though I don't regret not learning 如何にも、其処、etc. the first time I learned the words, I am learning them now. Similarly, I've also encountered many kanjis which find their way on "don't bother learning these kanjis cause you'll never encounter them" lists. And I'm really not that erudite.

I wish I spent more time practicing reading.

I passed JLPT1 two years ago, reached the point where my vocabulary is sort of native-level and can read pretty much anything, but my reading speed is horrendous. Like 2-5x slower than native speed, depending on medium and who you compare to. As a result, even reading stuff I'm interested in becomes a chore and I end up putting books after an hour (~15 pages) or so, so I don't really improve. For stuff like understanding lecture notes this isn't a problem since reading comprehension isn't the bottleneck factor but for everything else it's frustrating.

From now on I'm setting myself the task of reading 100 pages of LNs (or ~60 pages of heavier novels) a day (or however much I can fit into the day, whichever is lesser) until I can do it in under an hour. Tired of being so far behind natives in this area.

Last edited by dizmox (2013 March 29, 4:00 am)

Hmm, I think I ought to redeem myself from my self-incrimination in the post above.

Just making the attempt to switch from not reading word by word but instead glance at whole parts of sentences at a time has doubled my speed. Now I can enjoy myself. >_>

But you know once you you reach a certain level you can add 30-40 words a day and its not hard to remember at all just because you already know so much and you're so used to Japanese . That's from my experience. I don't add 30 to 40 everyday just bc of time restraints but its completely feasible with my level of Japanese. It's not really cramming bc I got those 30-40 words from whatever material I'm enjoying and it's just really easy to remember bc of all the Japanese I do know. Also there's different types of anki card layouts like mcd that are helpful. I guess I wouldn't recommend adding 30-40 everyday when you're at the level maybe once in a while bc thr reviews will build up. And maybe time spent on reading or watching stuff might be better in the long run

Last edited by howtwosavealif3 (2013 April 08, 5:52 am)

howtwosavealif3 wrote:

But you know once you you reach a certain level you can add 30-40 words a day and its not hard to remember at all just because you already know so much and you're so used to Japanese . That's from my experience. I don't add 30 to 40 everyday just bc of time restraints but its completely feasible with my level of Japanese. It's not really cramming bc I got those 30-40 words from whatever material I'm enjoying and it's just really easy to remember bc of all the Japanese I do know. Also there's different types of anki card layouts like mcd that are helpful. I guess I wouldn't recommend adding 30-40 everyday when you're at the level maybe once in a while bc thr reviews will build up. And maybe time spent on reading or watching stuff might be better in the long run

The bold part is the reality I'm talking about for most people.  Sure once you get up to a more advanced level 30-40 new words in a single day isn't an impossible feat from a pure memory perspective but if you truly try to add 30-40 per day EVERY single day the amount of time you will be devoting to just SRS after a few weeks will be huge.  If you have massive amounts of free time and just truly love SRS'ing more than anything else then go for it but I believe the reality for the vast majority of us is that 30-40 per day every day is just going to lead to a huge amount of burn out and makes it VERY easy for something to happen that causes you to fall behind.  Busy day at work + engagements afterwards + maybe you aren't in top Japanese studying mood that day and now you are looking at nearly 600-800 reviews the following day which just causes a chain reaction. 

The results?  You end up spending lots of time not adding new cards and trying to get back on track thus dropping your average down to what you should have been doing in the first place. 

BTW I'm not saying that 10 per day is the number you should aim for.  I'm just showing that even at a very low number you still wind up with a large Japanese vocabulary in a relatively short period of time compared to the vast majority of learners and in a manner that is far more conductive to keeping things fun and allowing you to time to focus on other areas of Japanese.

Yeah, I never really got that either. But I guess that's why Damien added the daily cap thing.

Aspiring wrote:

mezbup mentions* that when you add 35 new words a day for a year, the 'steady state' for reps is around 300-350 reviews. imo it's not too difficult to accomplish, especially if you own an iphone or an android.

300-350 reviews? That's hours, every day, even at 30 seconds apiece. That's fine for crunching through RTK, not so good for every day of your life.

I do about 85 reviews a day on average. Almost all of my cards are vocab word in a context sentence, so I could see doubling that if I did simple word cards, maybe. Personally, I'm not willing to consistently spend more than 40 minutes a day on reviews.

After the necessaries of sleeping, hygiene, commuting, eating and working there's only a few hours left. Spending half of that time on reviewing seems insane to me. Of course, if you don't actually do anything at work and just have to -be- there, then add however many words you like, but for those of us expected to actually be working when we're at work... not so much.

Personally, I agree with the notion that slow and steady wins the race. 10 words a day is plenty to have in Anki. You will pick up other vocab just from context whether you mean to or not anyway, if you're spending your freed up hours enjoying Japanese media.

@SomeCallmeChris
Well, I'm in high school, and I finish all of my reps in first period so I can't really compare myself to anyone here...

But I feel that if words are learned in comprehensible context, they're really easy to learn and review. Using Core or any premade decks may foster different results.


Just to stay on topic...
don't: underestimate the power of reading

I absolutely agree. I have 30 minutes to 1.5 hours of time in the evening that I spend on the internet, frittering away time. Which I can spend consuming Japanese media, or Anki-reviewing, or on Japanese learning websites. I cannot, however, spend 1.5 hours on each of those things... only on all of those things combined. I also cannot neglect my work for over an hour a day. More power to you that have such slacker jobs, or who haven't yet been disciplined for slacking on the job, but that's not reality in -my- world. I have roughly 4 hours a day in which to handle laundry, dishes, housekeeping, Japanese study, social life, contacting parents and relatives, etc.  More on my day off, of course, when I have one which happens once a week, usually. More power to those of you that have two days off a week and never have to put in work on the weekends or after hours.

If you're a student, then by all means, add 30 words a day. You don't know how easy you have it as a student until school ends and you're in the real world.

If I took that 30/60/60 that was mentioned, and spent it reviewing, that would roughly describe all my time for leisure activities. I do enjoy studying Japanese... but not enough to study it to the exclusion of actually consuming Japanese language media or otherwise enjoying my time.

I don't know about other nations, but in the USA you are required to be given the -option- of having 1/2 hour of unpaid break time for any shift exceeding 6 hours. Assuming you actually take that option, and actually eat during that break, then from punch-out you might take a few minutes to arrive at and settle at your break place, 10-15 minutes to eat, 10-15 minutes to study, a few minutes to return to the clock and punch in again. Anything more than that, and you should count yourself lucky.

8 hrs sleep, 8 hrs work, .5 hour unpaid break, .5 hour in, .5 hour out commuting is 17.5 hours. 2.5 hours cooking, hygiene, housekeeping, medical, friends and family, that's 20 hours a day. In your remaining 4 hours, how much will you devote to SRS?

I haven't  allowed time, mind you, for a significant-other or a particular hobby other than studying Japanese, or working more than 40 hours which is pretty much required if you are at all career minded,  so now '3-4 hours' is a pretty extreme answer in my mind.

If you're career minded and not working the minimum, or you're hourly wage instead of salaried, then you can probably assume you're working 50-60 hours and cut that 'free time' in half. Now 3-4 hours of study per day is insane compared to 2-3 hours of 'free time'.

Of course, if you -are- salaried, you can make some of that up on your day off and/or weekend, if you have one.

Note that in the extreme case, 1/2 hour unpaid break could mean that you get 1/2 hour unpaid break and 23.5 hour workday, 6 days a week. (It is technically illegal to require a 7 day workweek, so you do get a day to recover.)  I don't know of any real case of such unrealistically stressful work, but labor laws don't do crap to prevent it.

1/2 hour, unpaid break, once per day (if the day exceeds 6 hours). Period. That's the 'law'. Food, break space, etc., do not need to be provided on site. Add travel time to the nearest fast food joint and you may barely have time to wolf down a burger. If you get the more-or-less standard 2x 15 minute paid breaks and 1/2 hour unpaid lunch break in an 8 hour shift, feel lucky, because that's -not- law, it's just common. Only the 1/2 hour unpaid break is law.

Mind you, I'm perfectly willing to leave my pair of jobs for something better if you think I'm insane and simply being screwed over. Make me an offer. I'm primarily a cook, with excellent skills in English, reasonable skills in web design and computer programming, and considerable culinary skill, not to mention reasonable skills in Japanese and somewhat poor skills with German and Spanish. Ideally, I'd like to run a western-style Bistro in Kyoto if you care to fund it, but Tokyo would be perfectly acceptable.

Last edited by SomeCallMeChris (2013 April 09, 3:52 am)

partner55083777 wrote:

Why don't you get a job as a programmer?

Because I can't stand the inside of cubicles any longer, that's why I moved to the kitchens. I don't really intend to return to computing again, but if I do, it's got to be... I don't know, something less purely sedentary. Also I don't speak any Chinese, but I do speak Japanese, so I'd rather visit Japan.

Anyway, that was just me unintentionally tangenting off into snarkiness. What I really meant to be pointing out was that in my various jobs both computer and culinary, I've been expected to be -working- when I'm at work and to take only a 1/2 hour lunch break. It's not normal to be able to take over an hour a day in breaks, in my experience. In the normal course of life, in my experience, there's only few hours of free time in a day.

I feel that 350 reviews a day is going to take up too much time -- at least I would never be able to keep up with that --  but I also believe in context sentences and typed input checked answers, so, whatever. If other people can do 350 reviews on their lunch break, then that's fine.

I don't really want to get into quibbling about those kinds of numbers, the point I was trying to make is that I think it's best to not spend more than a small fraction of your time doing Anki reps. You need some time for other kinds of study, of course. But, actually using the language - whether you're consuming some form of media or communicating with people should be the majority of your time. After all, using the language is the whole point of learning it, and simply reading is one of the best ways to improve your language skills.