I don't think many Japanese people even know this method exists. It's kind of like us paying attention to English learning material.

I do have some serious criticism about the method though, and I know a few others too.

What's the point of RtK (Remembering the Kanji) ?. Pretty much everything has been said already, unless some new research or method comes up that makes RTK obsolete.

A few of my friends still have some doubts, but that's only because I cannot yet use the kanji when reading (except a few I knew from before).  However, they're mostly just impressed that I've learned so many so fast - and I'm on a slower pace than most people here, I think (1075 in 5 months).  What's been especially fun is when they've wanted to test me, and they see that I'm getting over 80% of them just from the English keyword.  This system just plain works, and I think Heisig was right when he said:  You're not a kid anymore, so use all of the mental faculties you have as an adult!

In terms of criticism, I haven't really gotten much from natives but I've gotten a lot from fellow learners. But those people who critized it are the ones who haven't tried it/haven't kept up with it.

You can explain all you want but if the person isn't interested/doesn't put in the time. It won't matter as they will never know.

But on the other note, you'll be improving in everything and your results will speak volumes.

Japanese people have been indoctrinated that "there is no shortcut" for learning kanji apart from years of schooling. That's probably all there is to it.

I think the ratio is about 50:50. Some people were sceptical, some thought it was a cool idea. There was even a hand full of people from Taiwan who were like "Oh, I learned Chinese characters almost the same way!"

However, Japanese learners are often very critical of this specific method and the supposedely "silly/stupid stories" you have to remember. Just as ta12 wrote, most of them have never actually tried the method themselves, which I think is kind of silly. You'd expect people who make an effort to learn foreign languages (and hard ones at that) to be a little more open-minded. Seeing how nobody actually takes a closer look at the method, I might as well tell those who ask me about my Kanji ability that I grew up in Japan or something..

KMDES wrote:

The biggest concern I have is that RTK reinforces English with your Japanese learning. And then they go and SRS English keywords on top of that until it's drilled into their heads which ends up causing people to get stuck translating from Japanese -> English in their heads which is slow and error prone. If RTK used pictures it'd be much better as it'd be how children learn like a clean state that way you're not translating Japanese in your head, you're just understanding it.

The point of RtK is that you drill English keyword -> Kani in order to learn to write. Then when youve finished, you can start learning Kanji -> kana reading. Kanji -> English keyword is never meant to be reinforced; in fact Heisig states in the book that you shouldn't try and make the association, for the reason you stated.

I find it's true; the keyword gives a "feel" for the kanji, but it drops away quite soon; for example when I see 大 written i get the feeling of "big", but I hear たい、だい、おおきい. So really not an issue.

It's interesting. The Japanese people I know who are good at learning think RTK is an interesting idea. The ones that are average or less don't think much of it or other techniques I suggest (i.e., they think taking class ONLY will get you there quickly - 45-60 minutes per week, which is why classes suck if it's all you do.) There's a definite correlation between learning skills and RTK, or similar ideas, acceptance.

aphasiac wrote:

When he asked me what method I used, I said I'd used a book 'Remembering the Kana' and was able to read and write them all in 3 hours. Rather than opening a discussion, he just dismissed everything I said and went back to saying how difficult and hard they were to learn, and long it was taking him to learn katakana. Not sure if it was stubbornness or disbelief, but he couldn't accept there was an easy method...so good luck to him..

I had learned the hiragana and katakana initially all in one night ( being able to both resort the flashcards into the appropriate chart locations, and by the end of the night reproduce the chart by hand )

I didn't use any books, just a chart and came up with my own little mnemonics based on how the characters looked to me.

The next 2 weeks after that i got faster and faster using then while making paper flashcards for vocab using the kana for the japanese.   

I don't see why people are so afraid of menmonics!  English speakers learning Japanese ALWAYS, 99.9% of the time tell me that my method is HARDER and takes MORE time than just learning kanji in isolation every time i find a new word.  None of them listen to the fact that this was the biggest problem I had, not only making sense of the scribblings, but being able to reproduce them in a fashion that made them recognizeable, let alone from memory.

Japanese learners seem MUCH more open minded about the method, I've even had some tell me that it's how they learnt kanji ( as pieces, not with stories, then again I only had to use fleshed out stories for the truly hard ones )

/endrant

I've been told that the way Japanese kids learn 親 (parent) in school is by imagining a parent that stands on top of a tree and watches the kids. They think it's a clever way to remember that particular kanji. Lo and behold. They use mnemonics, they know it works.

Two reasons (that I can think of) why they're not using it for all kanji.
1. They teach in the wrong order. Based on frequency or something.
2. In most cases mnemonics are too silly.

How's this for a school manual - "痩 - The sickness that only allows you to eat monkey crotch will surely make you lose weight." Hey, it makes perfect sense, it's just as easy as "parent", but it's just too freaking ridiculous.

Maybe Heisig's Japanese teacher taught him the "parent" kanji this way and it was like  the ancient Chinese showing gunpowder to a weaponsmith. "Look at the pretty fireworks... Wait, what are you doing?"

zachandhobbes wrote:

3. They have a buttload of time in school to do tons of dedicated memorization through writing it over and over and over and get tested on it

Hey, that sounds like my RTK reviews.... Oh no, this must be some kind of bait and switch trick! (Realization sinks in). Heisig reels you in with shiny terms like "mnemonics" and "SRS". What he doesn't tell you is that you're going to get tested 20-30 thousand times before you're done with your little "shortcut". It's a mind trick to repackage rote memorization and make it easier to swallow... I've been had!

Just kidding. To new people reading this - do your RTK, it's fine.

shinsen wrote:

I've been told that the way Japanese kids learn 親 (parent) in school is by imagining a parent that stands on top of a tree and watches the kids. They think it's a clever way to remember that particular kanji. Lo and behold. They use mnemonics, they know it works.
...
How's this for a school manual - "痩 - The sickness that only allows you to eat monkey crotch will surely make you lose weight." Hey, it makes perfect sense, it's just as easy as "parent", but it's just too freaking ridiculous.

My story for 親 isn't exactly kid-friendly either. The pepper and seeing reminded me immediately of a high school classmate of mine who went out drinking one night, got into a confrontation with the police and got pepper-sprayed in the face. He claims that he sobered up immediately after the spray hit his eyes, and after that he must have been thinking "Damn, what will my parents say when they see me in such a condition?"

Edit: Just realized that I never actually published that story on the main site - time to correct that omission!

Last edited by vonPeterhof (2011 February 18, 5:03 pm)