He didn't use TV only.

He had been trying to learn Chinese for years before, unsuccessfully, using podcasts, Assimil, etc.

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo … &PN=52

I notice I pick up a hell of a lot more Japanese passively than I used to. That is, knowing so much enables me to actually pick stuff up passively, but the initial stages it's basically suicide (or just a big waste of time) to use a PURELY passive method. I'm mildly impressed with the results given he didn't even use a dictionary, but heck, 2 years and that's all you got?

A largely failed experiment in my opinion but interesting none the less.

Though, chinese tv ってさ it has so much Chinese subs available for it! If u used those Chinese subs + dic + Anki - 2 years would get you absolute pwnage I think. Also natural conversation is rather different than drama but understanding drama is a good precursor to understanding natural conversation.

The problem is, he's denying himself of context from which to make connections. Two things are required to learn a language, the target language itself, and a context through which to understand it and connect it to meaning. He can of course infer a certain amount of frequently used vocabulary and phrases and listening to bucket loads of real Chinese is no doubt excellent for his listening skills and pronunciation, but it's a lot easier as a beginner to learn massive amounts of vocabulary from things like parallel texts, phrasebooks etc, because the translations are right there and you can see which words mean what. Even conventional classroom methods using translation if done well also have this benefit. Just listening to TV is just waiting for contexts to pop up in which the words meaning will become clear. Why leave it to chance like this? If he combined all the listening practice with reading practice (as a faster means of learning vocabulary), he would be much much more successful as he'd then start hearing a lot of this extra vocabulary. He was using this method before to learn Japanese, and has been living in Japan for 6+ years. I watched a youtube interview he did with Steve Kaufman a few years back, and his Japanese was not very good to put it kindly. I don't know why he is so religiously fixated on a method offering such incredibly slow gains when there are plenty of simple things he could do to boost his learning.

@Mesbup Agreed. I can't wait to get to the point where I can start to pick things up passively. I think it happens about the intermediate or lower upper intermediate stage (N2 or so.)

JimmySeal wrote:

Our forum troll of the week made a post about this blog a while back (...) have a look... if you dare.

What was that for?

kittycate44 reported you, then went back and edited out her posts, then asked me to delete her account, which I did if only because of her copying IceCream.

Jesus you people are annoying lately. I can't get any work done today!!


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In a way this appears to be an extension of the notion to divide language learning into some discrete components and then tackle each in turn. He takes this to a certain extreme, choosing to do a vast amount of listening up front before attending to any other faculties.

What he has achieved thus far is unquestionably quite an accomplishment, albeit it of questionable utility, that he has managed to put forth such a large chunk of time in the hope that it will eventually result in the best possible competence in the language.

I think this is a fascinating experiment. I find it rather bothersome some of the comments Keith's recent posts have received, from people who, rather than being interested in seeing how this experiment plays out, are vehement in declaring it to be a failure and waste of time based on present results, when it is clear that there is much more to be done still. Expressing reservations at this point would be reasonable, but condemnation of the approach is premature, I think.

I chose some time back to try this same method for Japanese. I had completed RTK1, had just dabbled a little in Tae Kim. My Japanese study had always been rooted more in exploration and experimentation than in some eventual ability in Japanese, so it was quite natural that I would take to an uncommon idea.

Unfortunately, as I learned, this was not a suitable method for me. I am not much of a TV watcher, particularly not of the manner it seemed was necessary here, one who would give sole focus to the TV for long chunks of time. It took me quite a long time, a full year almost exactly, to reach just the 200 hour mark. I noticed over the course of those hours some improvement in listening ability, and I did learn some words, but for the most part, I could not detect much difference. I chose to stop at 200 hours, since it was not especially enjoyable and so, even if it was going to work after 300 or 500 or 2000 hours, it would be a miserable chore to get there, making the method's success for me an assured impossibility.

Personally, I am very curious to see how Keith's project turns out, if only to see if this really is a viable avenue of language learning, or an incredible waste of time. My own thought is that he could have had greater success if he managed to watch material on a graded level, rather than what he apparently did, which was to watch only advanced material.

“ are vehement in declaring it to be a failure and waste of time based on present results, when it is clear that there is much more to be done still. ”

Agreed, isn't he doing the same thing we do here albeit with listening instead of writing/reading?

Myth: Kids learn language faster than adults.
Reality: Adults learn language faster than kids.

I do something similar.
1) Watch w/ no subtitles
2) Review watch w/ no subtitles and looking up words that seem interesting (i.e. cool) and/or learnable, skipping parts that were well understood
3) Watch with subtitles

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but it is an interesting one and I'd like to hear more opinions on it.

What do you think about using this method for something who is already at an intermediate level? That is, basically not using a dictionary at all but surrounding yourself in audio.

In terms of Anki statistics I have about 20k vocab and 3k kanji, but my listening is still really bad. Could I just watch a bunch of drama and expect it to get better? Or do I need to put in outside effort?