shinraunit
New member
From: Seoul, Korea
Registered: 2010-04-07
Posts: 5
Hey everyone,
I bought RTK1 in the summer of 2007. There were several failed adventures. The first time, I was so mesmerized by how well the system worked in comparison to the rote method I learned in class, I was breezing through it at around 50 kanji/day. I made it to around 450 (1 week later) before getting bogged down by distractions, unending reviews, and the start of my senior year in university.
Each successive time I have started from scratch, it has been at a "slow-and-steady" pace. (Not so) ironically, I didn't accomplish nearly as many kanji using this route as I did the first time. Even though I had learned the kanjis years ago, I could only remember a few stand-out stories. The reviews got to be tedious and never-ending, even long after I stopped adding new cards, so I quit.
I'm now on my fourth attempt, having started a new "slow-and-steady" run back in June. My new kanji-learning and reviews have been very inconsistent, and I'm now only up to Frame 369. I have reviewed these 369 kanji so many times that I have them down quite well, but I know I will not keep this pace before getting impatient/distracted/sick of kanji altogether. I don't want to be 40 by the time I finish this project.
It's now the winter holiday in Korea, where I live, and I have approximately 27 days of vacation with a small smattering workdays thrown in between. My goal is to finish the rest of the book the end of my vacation, February 7th... one month from today. Subtracting the days I have to work, that comes out to a pace of 60 kanji/day. If I find I have extra time, I might go faster than that, but 60 is the daily quota.
Why I am doing it this way:
-I am impatient by nature
-I get lazy when things are too easy. I operate better under a challenge.
-I don't like to spend a lot of time reviewing. Going as fast as possible means I'll have only done a few reviews for each kanji by the time I finish the book.
-Heisig did around 1900 in 30 days, AND that includes the time it took to research, organize, and devise his system!
-This thread will receive more attention/encouragement/criticism, and that means more social pressure to succeed!
-I'm setting a deadline for completion, which I never did on my previous runs.
-I'll feel more accomplished.
And if I fail, well, I guess that means I'll be joining the slow/steady crowd!
I'll be doing learning a few kanji over the weekend, but since I'll be out of town, breakneck speed will commence on Monday, January 10th. By then I should be at 450 kanji.
My commitment:
-Make a new post here at least every 120 kanji, updating you on my status.
-If I don't finish this book by February 7th, I will donate it to my Korean girlfriend, who is a Japanese major and already knows all the Heisig kanji and then some. In other words, it will be a completely pointless gift.
Wish me luck, or tell me how crazy I am. Anything to hold me accountable for finishing this. 
Last edited by shinraunit (2011 January 06, 10:54 am)
vgambit
Member
Registered: 2007-06-21
Posts: 221
What you're saying is possible, but you'll probably fail. You're underestimating a lot of things, especially the time it takes to learn a kanji you didn't see the last 3 times you started RTK. Also, comparing yourself to Heisig is a bit much. Dude was working full-time towards learning Japanese. You probably aren't.
The arbitrary deadline of one month is only gonna make you feel worse when you inevitably miss a day and find yourself facing 2-300+ reviews and 120 new kanji. My advice is to stop going for speed and start going for frequency. Make kanji a habit, and it will suddenly become very easy.
Also, don't limit yourself to kanji. Pick up a beginner's book like Understanding Basic Japanese Grammar, and just read it a few times a day. Once you can understand every sentence on a page, move on to the next one. Easy and fun.
This high-octane stuff is not for most people. The hard part isn't doing it; it's dealing with the failure when you mess up.
aphasiac
Member
From: 台湾
Registered: 2009-03-16
Posts: 1036
There were a few days where I studied 50+ kanji and had good recall, so it's definitely possible. You need to break it down though, like into 3 sessions of 20 new kanji (one when you wake up, one at lunch, one in evening) or even 4 sessions of 15 kanji. Spread reviews and failed cards equally out between these sessions.
Honestly though, it sounds like your problem is that you're not making good enough stories. What's your recall rate like on newly added cards? Also when do you review newly added blue cards? Maybe you're relying on rote memorisation of primitives, hence why learning them quickly works for you (but long term this method will fail - you need good visual stories to remember).
Also there seems to be a theme of reviews getting tedious and making you give up. No matter how fast you learn, you're going to have to do the same reviews, there's no escaping it, so you've got to learn to cope. Try and break them into multiple sessions per day (instead of doing them in one big go), also have days where you just review and don't add new cards (weekends!).
Good luck, let us know how you get on.
overture2112
Member
From: New York
Registered: 2010-05-16
Posts: 400
vgambit wrote:
What you're saying is possible, but you'll probably fail.
An average of 60 per day is possible even if you work full time except weekends (view it as 100/day on sat&sun, 45/day otherwise) and the OP seems to imply 27 days of non-workdays, which makes it completely trivial. Once you get into the swing of things you can find 180+ over the course of a day not only possible but enjoyable.
You don't need to be a speed demon, just be efficient; use a top story from this site 95%+ of the time (maybe with minor edits for formatting, spelling, etc), do reviews while walking to get food or run errands, don't get too sidetracked, etc.
It should take no more than 2-3 minutes to add a new kanji (read Hesig's notes/warnings, choose a revtk story, do minor edits, and then review it in anki 10minutes later or so) and reviews shouldn't be more than 20seconds each (and preferably half that for old primitives/kanji you no longer need to recite the story for).
vgambit wrote:
My advice is to stop going for speed and start going for frequency. Make kanji a habit, and it will suddenly become very easy.
I agree that making Japanese study a regular habit is the most important thing, but it isn't mutually exclusive with going through RtK (or any other material) quickly.
shinraunit
New member
From: Seoul, Korea
Registered: 2010-04-07
Posts: 5
Since waking up this morning, I've dedicated my whole day to studying. I'm now on 465. Time for a weekend out. I'll make a post when I get back on Monday (Japan time) if not sooner.
aphasiac wrote:
There were a few days where I studied 50+ kanji and had good recall, so it's definitely possible. You need to break it down though, like into 3 sessions of 20 new kanji (one when you wake up, one at lunch, one in evening) or even 4 sessions of 15 kanji. Spread reviews and failed cards equally out between these sessions.
That's a good idea. I think I will up the ante on my sessions, though. I find I can better keep focus when I study in big blocks (of an hour and a half or more) and there's less opportunity for distractions in between.
vgambit wrote:
Also, don't limit yourself to kanji. Pick up a beginner's book like Understanding Basic Japanese Grammar, and just read it a few times a day. Once you can understand every sentence on a page, move on to the next one. Easy and fun.
I spent two years studying Japanese in college, and through all of that I probably remembered the meanings of less than 70 kanji, much less the writings. I've kept myself refreshed by travelling to Japan for a few weeks since then. My Japanese is nowhere near advanced or even intermediate level, but I have a basic grasp of grammar and vocabulary. Besides, Heisig says in his introduction that it's better to go through RTK independently of Japanese study.
overture2112 wrote:
An average of 60 per day is possible even if you work full time except weekends (view it as 100/day on sat&sun, 45/day otherwise) and the OP seems to imply 27 days of non-workdays, which makes it completely trivial. Once you get into the swing of things you can find 180+ over the course of a day not only possible but enjoyable.
You're right. I can get through this much faster than that. Let it be understood that 60 is my quota, therefore absolute the minimum I will do each day (leaving me room for studying Korean, exercise, socializing, and unexpected events). I will strive for much more on days I have all to myself. February 7th is the minimum time. Ideally I'd like to complete this before the end of January or earlier. The sooner the better.
Overture, you mentioned using Anki. I started out using Mnemosyne in '07, then switched to this site on my current run. Is it better to use Anki or some other software for reviews?
Last edited by shinraunit (2011 January 07, 1:36 am)
EratiK
Member
From: Paris
Registered: 2010-07-15
Posts: 874
Hey.
First, since it's your what, fourth time?, why don't you use the lite version?
You have to realize since you choose the regular RTK, you'll have exponentially more reviews. And believe me, it's not the reviews around 500 that are a pain, it's after 1500.
Reviewing is part of the learning process. For kanji it's the most efficient therefore unavoidable way. A reasonable attitude to adopt towards reviewing is to aim for frequency rather than speed. Everyday, first thing in the morning, review. Don't think, don't procrastinate, just do it. Develop this reviewing routine. Don't even stop for weekends, birthdays, new year's eves. In my experience, it's the reviewing that gets you through.
That being said, you seem motivated, so it should work out fine. But they say reviewing is more important than adding, and I completely agree.
Last edited by EratiK (2011 January 07, 11:32 am)
My first runthrough I got through at a good pace, and slogged through so many daily reviews, so many failed cards and just kept at it.
Nothing was going to stop me
I ended up having circumstances out of my control stop me from reviewing for a few days the day after I entered the last card into srs mode.
I came back to a 1300 review pile.
I never climbed back out.
I am on by second completion, taking it easier this time, i did the 130 kanji lesson in a day ( was very easy since I knew it so well ) Other days i might do a full lesson or two depending on their size, or none at all. I'm now hitting around 200 reviews a day and I'm at 1800 and the end ofthe book I have lost most of the benefit of the last runthrough.
I've slowed down dramatically now.
Just my experiences, it's better to finish and remain sane than to not finish, if piles get too big, back off a bit instead of making it worse and getting overwhelmed.
dizmox
Member
Registered: 2007-08-11
Posts: 1149
A couple weeks ago I went through RTK1 in 4 days after having not written any kanji in over a year.
Now I remember how to write most of them again, just not when to use them... I'll graduate from being a ワープロ馬鹿 some day.
Last edited by dizmox (2011 January 16, 8:40 am)
mightymiff
New member
From: Washington
Registered: 2008-08-17
Posts: 1
止めない！ This may be my first post, and I'm giving it to you.
I seem to do almost as well with 100-card-add-days as 50. There are, however, twice as many new reviews the next day. So even if you don't add cards for a day, it'll be a whole lot easier to make your quota tomorrow if you at least review today. You say you don't like reviewing a lot. Okay, but (and this is my opinion) adding cards at the expense of reviewing seems to be lacking a fundamental component of the system, like the 'remembering' part of RTK. 80% recall sounds doable though. Over 80% and I feel like I'm at least moving forward. If I go under (and, unfortunately, I was under for a good stretch there) I feel like I'm wading through a muddy bog full of quicksand while, simultaneously, beating my head against a brick wall as my sinking momentum overtakes my forward inertia. Keep that head up!
I look at my Anki reviews as a kind of ritual. I suppose I could put it off or forget about it, but I don't--at this point, those feelings don't even factor into the equation. Maybe if you pretend you feel this way... don't underestimate the power of pretending.
Granted, my RTK adventure has aborted twice in as many years. But today I reach 2042. And I'll be moving on. I don't need to contemplate utility or worth; I'm simply moving on. It's time for you too, right?
頑張って。
Last edited by mightymiff (2011 January 20, 1:19 pm)
overture2112
Member
From: New York
Registered: 2010-05-16
Posts: 400
shinraunit wrote:
Overture, you mentioned using Anki. I started out using Mnemosyne in '07, then switched to this site on my current run. Is it better to use Anki or some other software for reviews?
I used this site for getting all my stories; usually choosing one of the top 5, maybe making some formatting edits, and carefully noting when people suggest making a story for a common combination of kanji that Heisig didn't notice.
After adding at least 10 but never more than 30, I'd then kill about 2-5min before reviewing those new kanji in anki. To make things easier, I wrote a script that fetched my stories from this site and updated my anki deck (adjusting some formatting to my preferred style). I set my deck to show new cards before reviews since I'd occasionally get bursts of 30+ due cards throughout the card adding intervals that would otherwise delay me.
I haven't bothered using the learning mechanism on this site or most other SRS systems, so I can't honestly say whether they're inferior in any pedagogical sense, and I'd be surprised if my method didn't work equally well in said systems, but I prefer Anki because it's a very open platform that's easy to extend and configure.
animehunter123
Member
From: Figaro Castle
Registered: 2010-12-10
Posts: 208
