バーテンダー is based on quite a good manga and spin off anime. It has Aiba Masaki as the lead (he's sort of solid as an actor, but I've only really seen him on variety shows.) I think it should be, hopefully, pretty mature. The anime was fairly good and pretty reasonable in it's language use, so it's worth picking up, if your in Japan or have access to DVDs, whatever.

# Friday, 11:15 on TV Asahi.
http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Bartender
http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Aiba_Masaki
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZKoSlyAYHU

By the way, who else is looking forward to the live action Gantz?

Last edited by Cranks (2010 December 29, 8:41 am)

IceCream wrote:

...It's things like using 「だよね」　or 「XXXじゃないですか」 when it's not a negation.
...
ways of saying things are kinda harder.

What's wrong with だよね etc? I'm pretty sure I heard those things in real speech...?

Well, you're in Japan, aren't you? You could just hang out with people and just listen...You can't stop/rewind and it might be weird not interacting, but I'm sure it could happen somehow. Even sitting and eavesdropping on people at Starbucks or something could work.

As for TV shows...Seems like they've got a lot of 'unscripted' variety shows and things. Just turn on the TV and listen. Tape/DVR/Record it if you want. If you hear certain things over and over, take note of it. Also take note of the things you often say, but never hear them say.

The podcast thing is a good idea too.

But I'm still not 100% sure what it is that's making you sound "drama-ish..."

If you're being laughed at for saying things like だよね and ～じゃないですか, then I would say it is probably the inflection you are using to say it - which can easily be picked up from dramas. While I've noticed many natural drama scripts, it's usually the delivery that makes you think... huh, this is clearly scripted.

Anime is the biggest culprit of this. I recently tried to watch 神のみぞ知るセカイ and had to give up after two episodes because I couldn't take the ridiculous speech and forced lines. I felt like I was watching it dubbed in English... that's how bad the lines felt delivered to me.

IceCream wrote:

(the situation was, i was reallllllly drunk & fell off a table onto a chair [i've been told, i don't actually remember that part] and then someone else was on the table & i said 「危ないじゃないですか？！？気をつけてね！」 in an exagerated voice, and someone else said something like 「そうだよ！危ないよ！」 and i said 「だよねー！」. If you imagine a really cheesy drama, that's exactly how i said it )

I'm soooo glad i understand now. i was really scared for a bit!!

That's hilarious. If you come off as scripted comedy when you're drunk, is that really such a bad thing?

My mistake - I can never keep track of genders on this forum. Naturally, as this is the internet, I always assume male (not meant as sexist, 50% a joke and 50% harsh reality). But I've learned on this forum that never holds true.

We really need a gender icon placed next to our names.

And in that case, draw out the ね a bit more. And for the ~じゃないですか drop the ですか and put an inflection like you are asking a question (which you are) on the end.

Yes, watching native material made for native speakers and using it as a source of study is guaranteed to harm your language abilities.

Also, if you want to learn the language to gain access to said native material, you should probably just give up.

Sorry, I wasn't being very clear.

As long as you put in some grade of effort, I believe anything can be a perfectly valid study source. And I think discouraging people to learn because they have the 'wrong' reason for doing so comes across as slightly elitist.

Last edited by astendra (2011 January 13, 2:37 am)

wemaydance wrote:

No matter what language you're talking about, whether it's L1 or L2, whatever you're surrounded with will affect you. I realized this after my brother moved to Los Angeles a few years ago to follow his screenwriting dream. He now talks like the movies and TV show characters that he watches and writes about 24/7! Scary, but true.

I don't think anyone's denying that.

What we're denying is that it hurts your language learning.

Yes, you'll probably have to un-learn that at some point, but if it helps rocket you ahead, you're WAY ahead.  If it only manages to get you talking sooner, you're still WAY ahead.  If it only keeps your motivation...  See the pattern here?

The -only- downside is a little (possible!) embarrassment at some later date.  You will make so many mistakes while learning a language that embarrassment is virtually guaranteed.  A little more won't make a difference.

I suppose a little care should be taken not to sound like Frankie from One Piece, or the main character from My Boss My Hero, but I don't think people are really in much danger of that unless that's the only show they watch, and the only person they imitate.

Edit:  And to be honest, sounding like the guy from MBMH would be pretty hilarious.  I bet I could make a lot of friends if I sounded like that.

Last edited by wccrawford (2011 January 11, 4:56 pm)

wemaydance wrote:

wccrawford wrote:

Yes, you'll probably have to un-learn that at some point, but if it helps rocket you ahead, you're WAY ahead.  If it only manages to get you talking sooner, you're still WAY ahead.

Oh totally. TV is way more accessible to beginners such as myself. Especially since we don't have the advantage that Japanese children do of having parents constantly giving us language input!

Right now I am watching a lot of dramas. Once my skills get better I'm hoping to add on other types of shows and eventually, real conversations with Japanese people.

Can I recommend you change that order?

I'm just starting to watch my first sub-less drama (because I couldn't find it with subs, mainly).  It's really, really hard.  I'm just barely understanding.  I started talking with a Skype partner like 6 or 8 months ago.

So I'd advise to get a partner now.  It's easier than you think, especially if they're learning English, too.  Even beyond the practice, it's incredibly rewarding, which helps a lot with the motivation.

Lol learning from dorama enables you to have fun with Japanese in a way the classroom never really does... for example just for fun sometimes on purpose I'll say something that sounds like it comes straight from the mouth of a brooding dorama protagonist. The reactions are always classic...

the other day my flatmate asked me some real trivial question like do we have any milk? or something like that... n I was like 知らねえよ！ n she was like　え！？超びっくりしたよ！何その態度とか思って... it was funny as. She's from Osaka so she gets it.

But I guess you gotta be wary about this stuff creeping into your speech UNintentionally. Sometimes it will! I've definitely said a few things here and there not on purpose which got unexpected responses like え？怒ってるの？ haha. But like any mistake that kinda thing clears itself up after awhile. Though, it's classic being able to rant like angry/brooding/hot-headed males in dorama do. A skill that can only be learned from watching dorama... or pissing off a lot of Japanese dudes.