wrong stroke count for 汲 and 蓋

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Reply #1 - 2010 October 03, 11:23 am
Vasek N New member
From: CZ Registered: 2010-02-19 Posts: 7

Can anyone give explanation as to stroke-count to these two kanjis?

汲 : draw water
  Here stroke count is said to be 7 - however primitives consist of water(3) and reach-out(3).

蓋 : lid
  Here stroke count is said to be 14 - however primitives consist of flower(3), gone(5) and dish(5).

I checked against another dictionary, for 汲 it shows also 7, for 蓋 13.

Reply #2 - 2010 October 03, 11:34 am
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

You will find some variations in the stroke count of some elements -- it does seem odd because in my dictionary (the Kanjigen), 及, 吸, and 扱 all have the 及 element as 3 strokes but then 汲 has it as 4.  I have a feeling it has to do with the former being on the Jouyou list and the latter not -- probably 及 used to be considered 4 strokes but the Jouyou list has it as 3.

(Kanjigen lists 蓋 as 13, not 14.  If there is a variation in there I imagine it would be 去 counted as 6 strokes instead of 5, but I don't know for sure.)

Reply #3 - 2010 October 03, 1:50 pm
Thora Member
From: Canada Registered: 2007-02-23 Posts: 1691

My (probably older) version of kanjigen lists 汲 as having 6 strokes. I recall Jarvik7 mentioning that the latest version reflects the 2004 decisions regarding standard forms (namely, non-Jouyou kanji won't use the Jouyou forms). So that would fit with your explanation, ydtt.

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Reply #4 - 2010 October 03, 4:13 pm
Vasek N New member
From: CZ Registered: 2010-02-19 Posts: 7

yudantaiteki wrote:

(Kanjigen lists 蓋 as 13, not 14.  If there is a variation in there I imagine it would be 去 counted as 6 strokes instead of 5, but I don't know for sure.)

I've checked the threads here a bit more, and there seems to be notice about the 'flower' primitive - for some kanji, it is supposedly considered to be 4-stroke (2 x ten).

So this might be why its 14, not 13.

Last edited by Vasek N (2010 October 03, 4:14 pm)

Reply #5 - 2010 October 03, 4:59 pm
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

Yeah, that sounds right -- I know that in traditional Chinese writing it's 4 strokes because you're technically supposed to draw it as essentially two +'s rather than 3 lines.

Reply #6 - 2010 October 03, 9:11 pm
JimmySeal Member
From: Kyoto Registered: 2006-03-28 Posts: 2279

To explain the 4-stroke 及 interpretation, the older form of this character was 4 strokes:

an angled overhang
又 (2 strokes)
a curved vertical stroke

In fact, 及 is still classified as having 又 as its main radical, even though it no longer technically contains 又.

I can't find the list of 2004 revisions, but I would presume that all all non-Joyo kanji containing 及 were dictated to have the 4-stroke version.

Reply #7 - 2010 October 04, 3:28 am
Vasek N New member
From: CZ Registered: 2010-02-19 Posts: 7

Thanks for explanation ;-)

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