2010 JLPT N1 (一級) Gangstas Only Thread

Index » JLPT, Jobs & College in Japan

gyuujuice
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2008-09-24
Posts: 828

Asriel, People are refering to the first option. It's similar to 完全マスター but organised in a logical way. I think the second one included lower level grammar though.

greatfool
Member
Registered: 2009-05-12
Posts: 32

xeno_panda wrote:

Would general newspaper vocab lists like this be useful to study?  I'm a little wary of reading articles right now because I know so few advanced-level words, and I don't want to learn lots of vocab about certain subjects and none about other subjects.

That seems like a good list, but am I the only one who uses the JLPT lists from here?
http://www.thbz.org/kanjimots/jlpt.php3

I know these are really old and the test makes no guarantees about words that will be used, but the JLPT 2 one helped me pass last year, and in my experience all the vocab section words can be found on these lists (I think its just the reading portion where you run into unlisted words).

I'm about 2/3 through the JLPT 1 list (about 3000 words) and have picked up many of its words elsewhere so I'm just kind using it to fill in the gaps.

xeno_panda
New member
From: US
Registered: 2010-08-03
Posts: 9

If those lists are the same as the ones from tanos.co.uk (http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt1/vocab/), then I'm using it too (I finally settled on a list to study!).  But for the tanos lists, the hiragana listed is often wrong, so Rikaichan/a dictionary is useful too.

And the new passing rates were just announced by the official JLPT people: at least 19/60 correct for each section (vocab, reading, listening), and 100/180, or 55% overall.  SO much better than the "70% for everything" rumor.

Advertising (register and sign in to hide this)
JapanesePod101
Sponsor
 
coverup
Member
From: 神戸
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 111

xeno_panda wrote:

And the new passing rates were just announced by the official JLPT people: at least 19/60 correct for each section (vocab, reading, listening), and 100/180, or 55% overall.  SO much better than the "70% for everything" rumor.

Source?  That kind of makes me feel better!

ta12121
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2009-06-02
Posts: 3190

coverup wrote:

xeno_panda wrote:

And the new passing rates were just announced by the official JLPT people: at least 19/60 correct for each section (vocab, reading, listening), and 100/180, or 55% overall.  SO much better than the "70% for everything" rumor.

Source?  That kind of makes me feel better!

If this is true, than it's pretty sweet. But I think aiming for that 70-80% range means you have a good understanding/solid understanding for the material.

caivano
Member
From: Tokyo
Registered: 2010-03-14
Posts: 705

that's real low considering it's multiple choice.

source here

http://www.jlpt.jp/e/guideline/results.html

wonder why they made it so easy...

xeno_panda
New member
From: US
Registered: 2010-08-03
Posts: 9

Yeah, caivano posted the source link, sorry about that.

coverup
Member
From: 神戸
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 111

Thanks.  Man, that's really really low, considering the said that the scope of the test doesn't change.  I'm almost... disappointed?  Whatever though.  Employers don't know that the pass mark is that low - N1 is still N1.  I wonder how it tests more advanced things?  Would that be the letter ranking for the Reference Information?

Would be interesting to know if the percentages for pass and fail significantly increased or decreased with the new scoring system.

ta12121
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2009-06-02
Posts: 3190

coverup wrote:

Thanks.  Man, that's really really low, considering the said that the scope of the test doesn't change.  I'm almost... disappointed?  Whatever though.  Employers don't know that the pass mark is that low - N1 is still N1.  I wonder how it tests more advanced things?  Would that be the letter ranking for the Reference Information?

Would be interesting to know if the percentages for pass and fail significantly increased or decreased with the new scoring system.

I have a feeling it will increase the amount for people passing. Only makes sense, just the numbers i mean.

thurd
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2009-04-07
Posts: 756

If what I've read is true then this change in grading methodology shouldn't increase the amount of people passing since its all relative now. Thats why you need to wait so for them to announce it, they just need all results to determine how low the passing mark will be for X% best people to get through. Each exam is supposed to be different, with different passing grades depending on how good you are among others.

Its not as useful for measuring language ability but very good in ordering people by it. Employers will lag a bit with the information so expect a few years before they realize N1 is worth s%#t, so for all those that take the test just to have a better chance at getting work this is a good change.

Now... don't study so I can pass N2 easily tongue

coverup
Member
From: 神戸
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 111

thurd wrote:

If what I've read is true then this change in grading methodology shouldn't increase the amount of people passing since its all relative now. Thats why you need to wait so for them to announce it, they just need all results to determine how low the passing mark will be for X% best people to get through. Each exam is supposed to be different, with different passing grades depending on how good you are among others.

Again, source?  This seems to be an extremely unfair way of scoring the test and would cause the test to lose any semblance of objectivity it had to begin with.  The test would then cease to be an index of Japanese ability, and would become an index of competition with x set of people at y point in time.

I thought we were waiting for the pass score to be announced because it was the first time the new test format had been instituted.

DavidZ
Member
From: Tokyo
Registered: 2008-11-05
Posts: 81

coverup wrote:

thurd wrote:

If what I've read is true then this change in grading methodology shouldn't increase the amount of people passing since its all relative now. Thats why you need to wait so for them to announce it, they just need all results to determine how low the passing mark will be for X% best people to get through. Each exam is supposed to be different, with different passing grades depending on how good you are among others.

Again, source?  This seems to be an extremely unfair way of scoring the test and would cause the test to lose any semblance of objectivity it had to begin with.  The test would then cease to be an index of Japanese ability, and would become an index of competition with x set of people at y point in time.

I thought we were waiting for the pass score to be announced because it was the first time the new test format had been instituted.

According to these 3 PDF docs on the JLPT site, the new exam uses "equating" to determine the scores:
www.jlpt.jp/guideline/pdf/understandingscorereport.pdf
www.jlpt.jp/e/reference/pdf/guide.pdf
www.jlpt.jp/e/reference/pdf/guidebook_s_e.pdf

This explanation is from the first PDF:
"Scores for the old test were “raw scores” calculated by the number of correctly answered questions. The new test scores are given as “scaled scores” obtained by an equating method. With scaled scores, the same scale is always used to calculate scores for the same-level test. While difficulty of the test differs slightly from session to session, scaled scores do not fluctuate according to difficulty of test items. Therefore, Japanese-language competence at the time of the test can be accurately and fairly shown in the scores."

I don't quite grasp the details of this "equating" method, but it seems different than simply grading on a curve, which is what Thurd is suggesting (I think).

thecite
Member
From: Adelaide
Registered: 2009-02-05
Posts: 781

Lower passing grades = new marketing attempt?

After all, they're really just trying to make money from this test.

coverup
Member
From: 神戸
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 111

DavidZI wrote:

don't quite grasp the details of this "equating" method, but it seems different than simply grading on a curve, which is what Thurd is suggesting (I think).

Yeah, their wording is extremely vague.  It may be impossible for us to tell how it works until we get the passing marks for our test in December and compare them.  Even then the process behind the scoring may not be readily apparent.

Evangelo
Member
From: Osaka
Registered: 2008-05-08
Posts: 55

xeno_panda wrote:

If those lists are the same as the ones from tanos.co.uk (http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/jlpt1/vocab/), then I'm using it too (I finally settled on a list to study!).  But for the tanos lists, the hiragana listed is often wrong, so Rikaichan/a dictionary is useful too.

Some friends and I went through those lists and made examples sentences for the words we didn't know. I would share it, but it's filled with inside jokes and sentences like:

"******* 磁石, how do they work?"

Also, they're in about 100 small text files. If anyone is interested, I might be able to share them.

180

thurd
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2009-04-07
Posts: 756

coverup wrote:

Again, source?  This seems to be an extremely unfair way of scoring the test and would cause the test to lose any semblance of objectivity it had to begin with.

I can't find it right now but it wasn't anything official like what DavidZ found. I was just reading lots of stuff about the new format and stumbled upon such information.

I don't know if its unfair, a rat race is kind of built into our lives anyway. If you think about it, previous system wasn't fair either. There were multiple reports on how the test was getting harder and everyone should judge themselves based only on the most recent ones, because older ones were too easy.

coverup wrote:

The test would then cease to be an index of Japanese ability, and would become an index of competition with x set of people at y point in time.

You make it sound very wrong but in reality its not that bad. They are just measuring an ability of a huge population in a point in time and then relatively to how they did assign marks. They don't need to no worry about sudden or huge degradation of abilities because there are minimums and since grading is relative you have to prepare for the test more diligently (you need to score more than your average Joe to be sure of passing, not some lousy 60% wink ... I know its 55% this year but that just shows you how bad people are at Japanese).

In my country they recently (a few years back) changed the system that gets you to an university to something very similar.

xeno_panda
New member
From: US
Registered: 2010-08-03
Posts: 9

I've been following this topic about the new scoring system: http://www.jlptstudy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8205

It seems each question will be weighted differently.  If a lot of people answer a question right, the question will be worth a little.  If a lot of people answer a question wrong, that question will be worth more.

Javizy
Member
From: England
Registered: 2007-02-16
Posts: 770

55%? I might sign up if it's not too late.

coverup
Member
From: 神戸
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 111

@xeno_panda:  Thanks for the link, I gave the Japan Foundation's reply a read and I agree with the final post:

"But, people seem to be a little hung up on what the pass percentage is. The scores on the test are not based on percentages. Conceptually, this can be hard to grasp, especially since they've just moved from a system based on percentages. But, I say again, The scores on the test are not based on percentages. How it works is that they statistically figure out the difficulty of the items and the ability of the people taking test. And if they're using IRT, and I don't know of any other up-to-date way of doing this, the scores will typically be between -3 and 3 (this is just how the stats model works) and the average will be 0. "

So, to paraphrase, if the pass ratio was 55% for December, that doesn't mean 55% of all questions answered correctly.  That means 55% of the allotted points - so the remaining 45% should be things that are difficult or higher level.  Thus, Javizy shouldn't be getting too excited about the 55% big_smile

Perhaps this is a better method of scoring, although they are still making big assumptions about the efficacy of the test in measuring actual Japanese ability (which is kind of like porn, you know it when you see it).

thecite
Member
From: Adelaide
Registered: 2009-02-05
Posts: 781

coverup wrote:

So, to paraphrase, if the pass ratio was 55% for December, that doesn't mean 55% of all questions answered correctly.  That means 55% of the allotted points - so the remaining 45% should be things that are difficult or higher level.  Thus, Javizy shouldn't be getting too excited about the 55% big_smile

Meh, I'm pretty indifferent to that kind of scoring method. I can't really tell whether that's better or worse. It kind of defeats the purpose of having different level tests, IMO. When we're taking N1, we should be able to assume that all of the questions are meant to be of the same difficulty.

akimoto
New member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2006-06-20
Posts: 8

bennyb wrote:

coverup wrote:

@akimoto - I am also using the Kanzen Master book for kanji, but it sucks because they don't have example sentences for the 音読み.  Anyone know a good resource other than Kanji In Context that does?  The UNICOM books don't seem to be all that great for 1kyuu, even though I used the kanji/vocab one for 2kyuu.

@bennyb - try Kanzen master, great for kun-yomi

I haven't started reading 社説 much, gotta get on that.

I am using that book now, and yea, it's got lots of good examples for kun-yomi, not really many/any for onyomi vocab. SO same question is seconded!! (perhaps it deserves it's own thread?)

I would recommend, regarding flash cards, that you look at the anki example_sentences plugin. I use the OS X built in Japanese-dictionary (you have to change 環境設定to 日本語) for generating good sentences. I am trying to divorce my understanding of the words from their english counterparts, since all that adds is an extra associative layer.

Reply #47 - 2010 October 13, 7:27 pm
coverup
Member
From: 神戸
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 111

Hello all, hope your studying is going well.  Since registering for the test, my 実感 has totally 沸いた'd and I'm rocking full force through the materials.

Just an update from where I'm at and another book recommendation:

1 - I had complained about the lack of example sentences for 音読み in Kanzen Master Kanji.  I take this back - it is much quicker to look up the word in Yahoo Japan's 和英辞書 (Progressive) and take a short example sentence from there by copying and pasting into Anki.  The order of the words you learn makes them reinforce one another as well.  I am finding that I can take in a larger volume of new cards each day compared to when I was still working on disparate 訓読みs.

2 - Book recommendation.  I picked up the N1 にほんご500問 文字・語い・文法まとめドリル book from a bookstore on a recent visit to Tokyo.  It's a 4 week everyday program with the seventh day of each week dedicated to review (which you can breeze through if you are reviewing with Anki).  It seems to cover a lot of very practical stuff.  We are still in the early phases of finding out which books are effective for the new test format, but it seems reasonable to me that if the new test emphasizes practical situations then this book is a win.  Filled with stuff that I find to be useful in everyday life.

Reply #48 - 2010 October 20, 8:42 pm
julianjalapeno
Member
From: Tokyo
Registered: 2010-09-13
Posts: 128

coverup wrote:

Book recommendation.  I picked up the N1 にほんご500問 文字・語い・文法まとめドリル book from a bookstore on a recent visit to Tokyo.  It's a 4 week everyday program with the seventh day of each week dedicated to review (which you can breeze through if you are reviewing with Anki).  It seems to cover a lot of very practical stuff.  We are still in the early phases of finding out which books are effective for the new test format, but it seems reasonable to me that if the new test emphasizes practical situations then this book is a win.  Filled with stuff that I find to be useful in everyday life.

I flipped through this one the other day but I found it was maybe too easy for N1, or at least doesn`t really push someone who`s studying for this level. I was tempted to get it since I like the bite-size format (for lack of a better term) in that you get a small, varied review each day, but it didn`t feel complete enough to me. Still, its relatively inexpensive, so couldn`t hurt.

A book I got pretty recently that I find quite challenging is 日本語能力試験N1語彙対策標準テキスト which has an ugly blue cover that put me off at first but look inside and you`ll find some very dense content. Lots of idiomatic phrases and other usages of common words like 山 and 水 (like 山が外れる or 水をあける). It takes me days to digest just a couple of pages so I think anyone that can fully grasp this books material will be well-prepared.

coverup
Member
From: 神戸
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 111

julianjalapeno wrote:

A book I got pretty recently that I find quite challenging is 日本語能力試験N1語彙対策標準テキスト which has an ugly blue cover that put me off at first but look inside and you`ll find some very dense content. Lots of idiomatic phrases and other usages of common words like 山 and 水 (like 山が外れる or 水をあける). It takes me days to digest just a couple of pages so I think anyone that can fully grasp this books material will be well-prepared.

I got this book last night on the way home and I am also impressed with the amount of idiomatic expressions it has.  I think it is better designed than the other books.  I am bummed about typing up the sentences but I think they are of a high enough quality to be worth the effort.  Thanks for the recommendation, I never would have even opened the book in the store because of the ugly cover 笑

julianjalapeno
Member
From: Tokyo
Registered: 2010-09-13
Posts: 128

I`m glad you`re finding it useful.

I would also recommend the red grammar book in that series (with the same ridiculously messy cover). It has every grammar point in the Kanzen Master book as well as many more, plus theres a hefty amount of review questions, especially the final quiz, which has like 50 problems for each type of question, including the new ones that have you rearrange the sentences. Really puts the KM 1kyuu book`s piddly final test to shame.