My Intermediate Japanese learning approach

Index » The Japanese language

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Reply #1 - 2010 June 28, 2:05 pm
Hashiriya Member
From: Georgia Registered: 2008-04-14 Posts: 1072

I've been experitmenting with this method of learning lately, that maybe you guys already use, but I am just going to throw it out there. If Khatsumoto can say the same thing 1000 times, I figure that one more time won't hurt. For grammar i am still using Anki and the Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar deck but as far as vocabulary building goes i am having great success using the "Japanese" iPod App by codefromtokyo. I either go down the JLPT lists and find a word that I don't know and read every last example sentence there is for it.

(it is super easy to read the sentences in the app because if you touch an example sentence it will show the whole sentence in furigana. If you don't know a word in the sentence, you can just then tap the unknown word and the app will automatically take you to it)

I find that reading all of the example sentences gives me a huge feeling of how to use the word properly and I am actually able to speak and use it as a part of my repitore rather than just possibly recognizing a word because i saw it used in just one way in a smart.fm sentence. (run-on sentence I know) The variety of sentences really helps lock the word into your brain. It also keeps me from getting burned out through the act of sentence-mining in itself.

I think if you read a certain word in enough example sentences that you would never have to worry about reviewing it in Anki at all. I urge everyone to give this method a try if you haven't already. Especially to those who, like me, knew plenty of words but had no idea in how to apply them to actual conversations.

I like turtles・・・・

Reply #2 - 2010 June 28, 3:02 pm
gyuujuice Member
From: USA Registered: 2008-09-24 Posts: 828

How much is an iphone/ipod touch now? If I buy one can I change the language into Japanese? I think I need one just so I can use Anki on the go.

Thanks for the tip.

Reply #3 - 2010 June 28, 3:06 pm
Hashiriya Member
From: Georgia Registered: 2008-04-14 Posts: 1072

just check the apple website.. i would personally hold off on buying one until the next generation of the ipod touch comes out this fall... probably around september or so i would expect a new model to come out and hopefully have the new "retina" display and faster processor and crap. it is extremely useful to have though. i paid about $300 for my touch with 32GB HDD

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Reply #4 - 2010 June 28, 3:16 pm
Hashiriya Member
From: Georgia Registered: 2008-04-14 Posts: 1072

just try learning this word:在庫
read all of these sentences below and see how long the word will stick in your head. also, notice if you are able to use it in a sentence or not after reading everything. This is just from the Jim Breen dictionary by the way... The app is easier to navigate with the furigana and stuff.
在庫がなくなりははじめている。  [T]
The supplies are beginning to give out.
在庫がありません。  [T]
I'm afraid we are out of stock.
その店は各種ワインをたくさん在庫している。  [T]
The store has a large stock of wines.
そのスーパーマーケットは大量の商品在庫を持っている。  [T]
The supermarket has a large stock of merchandise.
あいにくお尋ねの商品は現在、在庫がありません。  [T]
I regret to say that the product you have asked for is currently out of stock.
当店ではレコードの在庫が多数あります。  [T]
We have hundreds of records in stock.
店は在庫を売り尽くしました。  [T]
The magazines were sold out.
地方の需要に応えるのに十分な製品の在庫がある。  [T]
We have adequate inventories of the product to meet local demand.
石油の在庫がきれかかっている。  [T]
Our stock of oil is running out.

Reply #5 - 2010 June 28, 4:15 pm
Hashiriya Member
From: Georgia Registered: 2008-04-14 Posts: 1072

come to think of it, this is probably how children learn there native languages and why it is working so effectively for me. A child increases their vocabulary by hearing a word used in several hundred situations until he figures out how to use it himself. If he were able to hear a word only once or twice he might recognize it, but at the same time be unable to use it. i'm sure this isn't true for every word out there but seems to work the majority of the time.

Reply #6 - 2010 June 28, 5:08 pm
Groot Member
Registered: 2010-03-18 Posts: 157

I have that app, too.  And I like it.  But doesn't your approach still require an SRS to make the word "stick"?

Reply #7 - 2010 June 28, 5:26 pm
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

Problem with that is that not all of the sentences in the Tanaka corpus (which EDICT uses) are good Japanese, or English.

Reply #8 - 2010 June 28, 5:31 pm
wccrawford Member
From: FL US Registered: 2008-03-28 Posts: 1551

SRS's are -never- required.  They are merely a tool that helps remind your brain of things on an efficient cycle. 

If you learn Japanese words, and then use them, you never need an SRS.  You'll most likely hear all the common words WELL before an SRS would bring them up again.  Then you will not only have new context, but be reminded of the old context as well. 

An SRS is only useful for things that you wouldn't be reminded of when simply using the information in your daily life.

Reply #9 - 2010 June 28, 6:20 pm
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

And of course, there are many of us who learned Japanese without ever touching an SRS (or even having heard of one) -- the first time I even heard of SRS was after I had been studying Japanese for 10 years.

Reply #10 - 2010 June 28, 6:34 pm
Hashiriya Member
From: Georgia Registered: 2008-04-14 Posts: 1072

No srs needed... The example sentences fade away after you read them but the one word that you used in every sentence remains in your head... tanuki corpus is good enough in this situation I believe.

Reply #11 - 2010 June 28, 7:25 pm
gyuujuice Member
From: USA Registered: 2008-09-24 Posts: 828

I hope the next ipod touch has an HD camera. ^0^ That would be awesome.
Can someone confirm that you can change the language to Japanese (and possibly Korean? 한구거 or 한국말)

As for the main topic, I truly belive it is possible to learn by osmosis. If you are concious of the words used around you, you will find that common words are used everyday.

For example. I taught a Japanese person the expresion "with flying colors" one day. That same day I heard the same expression three times. Two times were in commercials.

Reply #12 - 2010 June 28, 7:28 pm
ta12121 Member
From: Canada Registered: 2009-06-02 Posts: 3190

yudantaiteki wrote:

And of course, there are many of us who learned Japanese without ever touching an SRS (or even having heard of one) -- the first time I even heard of SRS was after I had been studying Japanese for 10 years.

you can learn a language without an srs. But the srs makes your life easier in the long run for retaining info. That's the plus about srs, you'll never forget anything if you keep using it daily.

Reply #13 - 2010 June 28, 8:01 pm
Aijin Member
From: California Registered: 2009-05-29 Posts: 648

gyuujuice wrote:

I hope the next ipod touch has an HD camera. ^0^ That would be awesome.
Can someone confirm that you can change the language to Japanese (and possibly Korean? 한구거 or 한국말)

Japanese is of course available for both the keyboard and settings (along with dozens of other languages) but I think Korean might not be available on the touch. It is on the iPhone, but I think I remember a friend with an iPod touch being unable to add a Korean keyboard. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

As for the method, I think it can be useful for learning new words! I have a student who does this actually, and though when I looked through it there were awkward/  grammatically incorrect sentences that I spotted, for the most part it looked good enough to use as a resource if you're just reading the sentences to strengthen the impression of the word.

Limitations are, of course, that I'd imagine it requiring a lot of time to do that with each new word you learn. And I don't think there are example sentences for more uncommon words (and if there are, usually only one, which won't really help you create a strong impression)

However, for software if you're going to use this why not just use Kotoba? Kotoba has the same exact feature and is free.

Reply #14 - 2010 June 28, 8:15 pm
rachels Member
From: Australia Registered: 2008-06-06 Posts: 110

If you want a large selection of sentences to look thorough, you could also enable the tatoeba plugin with your vocabulary deck, giving pretty much the same sort of resource, but within the SRS program.  Of course, the same caution (as to the absolute reliability of the sentences) is advised, by those who know more Japanese than I.  Nevertheless, I can't help agreeing with others here, that if you want to get a general sense of how the word is used, without memorising every sentence, it is surely going to be of help.

Reply #15 - 2010 June 30, 1:27 am
Squintox Member
From: Toronto, Canada Registered: 2008-07-27 Posts: 292 Website

iPod Touch does indeed have a Korean keyboard and the language of the device can also be changed to Korean/Japanese.

By the way, it's spelt 한국어, no 한구거 tongue

Last edited by Squintox (2010 June 30, 1:30 am)

Reply #16 - 2010 June 30, 4:00 am
thurd Member
From: Poland Registered: 2009-04-07 Posts: 756

Aedict (Android app) in its current release has a feature like this "Japanese" app, I'm on EDGE now so can't really download 30mb Tanaka dictionary and check it out but it should provide exactly the same service.

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