dave141190
Member
From: Scotland
Registered: 2008-08-16
Posts: 17
hi all
i think i done RtK wrong, but maybe it works too? 
Ive finished RtK 1(kinda) and right now I am letting the reviews die down a bit before starting sentences. But at the moment i'm frustrated at the way I did RtK. I thought it was right at the time but then relised it was different than what others were doing but i continued and thought it wouldn't make a difference.
When I do my reviews in anki i have the keyword on the question side and the kanji on the answer side, and what i do is look at the keyword then click "show answer" then i write down the kanji just by looking and copying it, then i try and remember the story by looking at the keyword and kanji then score myself on if i remembered the story or not.
I'm not sure on if or how i should change the way i do reveiews or should i start RtK all over again the correct way?
I just cant think straight at the moment and I'm to scared to stop doing it this way because it would have been a huge waste of time. 
Somebody please help me, it would be a huge weight off my shoulders.
Asriel
Member
From: 東京
Registered: 2008-02-26
Posts: 1343
Yeah, you pretty much did it wrong.
How it should be is
Keyword -> Story (if you need it) -> Write Kanji
The story is there to help you write the kanji. The kanji is not there to help you remember the story.
You should always be testing for what you want to remember. In your case, you tried to remember the story, which...I really don't see why.
The good news is that, since the story is what leads to writing the kanji, and you ALREADY know the stories so well (theoretically), you can just change the way you review and be good.
You see the keyword, but BEFORE looking at the kanji, you remember the story. Then, based on the elements in the story, you should be able to write the kanji.
I don't think all is lost, but you may have a period where you fail a lot of your reviews before it levels off again.
Raschaverak
Member
From: Hungary
Registered: 2008-12-30
Posts: 362
dave141190 wrote:
I just cant think straight at the moment and I'm to scared to stop doing it this way because it would have been a huge waste of time.
This. I've been in the same shoes. I thought, ah what the hell, I'll stick to my original way of doing things, and I'll finish someday. God damn, I was stupid. Funny thing is, unlike you, I was fully aware of what I was doing wrong, and that I should stop it immediately. I've spent hours debating myself wehter I should continue or not. And you know what happened? I didn't change the way I was doing it, and in the end I ended up in an even greater wasted time, than I would've, if I had stopped back then. So my advice: forget wasting time, if you feel you are going the wrong way, change things, so you will avoid the even bigger mistakes. There's always a level lower.... Luckily you are intelligent enough to ask people on the forums, back then I wasn't
Last edited by Raschaverak (2010 June 13, 5:59 pm)
Asriel
Member
From: 東京
Registered: 2008-02-26
Posts: 1343
Stories are just "hints" to help you remember write the kanji. You don't need an entire side for them.
What you could do, is have
Keyword
<font color=white>Story</font>
-----------
Kanji
So then if you need a hint, you can just select it to reveal the story.
You should just be "thinking" the story, not necessarily trying to recall it word for word. Really, it's just a "framework" to remind you how to write the kanji in question. You are supposed to forget them as time goes on. You don't need them, so they fall away.
For instance, I am at the point where I can go from keyword -> kanji without having to recall the story, usually. However, I often get "sutra" and "suspicious" (経 and 怪) mixed up. If I can remember the basic shape, it's just a matter of recalling the story real quick to remember which is which.
The stories are only good stories if they help you remember how to write the Kanji. Otherwise your story isn't "strong" enough, or it's just a bad story.
A good rule of thumb: You're learning Japanese, so if it's not Japanese, don't learn it.
aphasiac
Member
From: 台湾
Registered: 2009-03-16
Posts: 1036
dave141190 wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys 
and good tip IceCream
I understand now
But I started RtK on this website so all my stories are here. How do I move them to anki?
if you're using this site, then you can view your story at anytime during a review by pressing 'S' (or by pressing the story button at top left). So look at the keyword, try and write the kanji - if you can't do it, press 'S', then finally hit space for answer.
However, I'm a firm believer that you should be strict, and fail the card if you need to look at the story (as stories don't exist to help you in the wild)..
dave141190 wrote:
I'm not sure on if or how i should change the way i do reveiews or should i start RtK all over again the correct way?
Can you write the kanji correctly without the story, i.e. just by seeing the keyword? Test yourself, and let us know what happens (I'm curious)
Last edited by aphasiac (2010 June 13, 6:50 pm)
ninetimes
Member
Registered: 2008-10-08
Posts: 114
If you're doing stuff online, honestly the easiest solution is to just change your Keyword entry in Anki to
then you can just click the keyword and it'll pull up Koohii's study page for it.
This should work out of the box if you grabbed the RTK shared deck, I think.
Last edited by ninetimes (2010 June 13, 8:06 pm)
Senshi
New member
Registered: 2007-07-04
Posts: 5
Yes, you are doing it very very wrong.
I'm actually perplexed at how you made this error in the first place. Maybe you are not used to using flash cards. If I am understanding what you are saying correctly. You are flipping the card over and then AFTER you see what is supposed to be the answer (that's why it's on the BACK of the card) trying to recall the story from memory.
If they wanted you to recall the story, they would have put the story on the back and the Kanji on the front with the keyword. Normally when you use flashcards, you put thing thing you are trying to remember on the back. You are scored by whether you remember what is on the back.
The point, as aphasiac put it:
see keyword -> recall story (FROM MEMORY!) -> use story imagery/primitives to write kanji
You're supposed to see the keyword and then the story is supposed to come to you from the keyword, which you then use to remember the Kanji. Over time, you need the story less and less, and you can just go right from keyword to Kanji.
Putting the story on the front of the card, hidden in white text might be OK. I wouldn't recommend it though. What I'd do is put it on the back with the Kanji. If I can't remember a story I think of the card as forgotten. Putting the story on the front seems to be a crutch that will get you into trouble. If you are having trouble remembering the Kanji then just decrease the number you learn every day instead of learning it the wrong way which will hurt in the long run.
Well, I wouldn't say that you're totally off, per se. I'm of the belief that if it helps you get to your goal, then it's fine. Sure, people will tell you how remembering stories isn't helpful and can be a waste of time, and how you eventually forget the story and go from keyword to kanji. However, if it helps you learn the kanji, I see nothing wrong with it.
However, you are somewhat wrong in your approach. Learning stories can help you achieve your goal, which SHOULD be to remember the kanji. The way you're going about it now, you're remembering the stories and not focusing on the kanji at all. There's nothing wrong with what you're doing, it's that you're not doing anything to try to remember the kanji, which is what you want to do. You can do what you're doing, just scale it back a little and start doing reviews where you try to remember the kanji. Sure, remembering the stories helps, since it's better than not having a clue when you see a keyword. I print out a sheet with keyword and stories, and when I'm not busy, I just look the sheet over, especially with some kanji I learned a while back. That way, I still have an intermediate step between keyword and kanji, instead of seeing an old keyword and not remembering anything at all.
