Forward and Reverse Cards

Index » The Japanese language

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Reply #1 - 2010 May 26, 7:30 am
chris9687 New member
From: Japan Registered: 2009-08-11 Posts: 9

Sorry if this has already been asked, but a quick search of the forums yielded no results.

I am currently using a sentence deck and a vocabulary deck, both of which are on recognition only. Recently I decided that Id like to do both forward and reverse for my vocabulary deck. All of the cards are set to forward only, is there any way that you collective experts know of to replicate all of my cards but in the reverse?

Would you recommend both forward and reverse for vocab?

Its my first post so please be kind!

Reply #2 - 2010 May 26, 7:52 am
Mcjon01 Member
From: 大阪 Registered: 2007-04-09 Posts: 551

If you're using Anki, just make a new card template under deck properties that's set up the way you want, and then generate missing cards in the browser.

And whether or not I recommend it depends on what you mean by "reverse".  If you mean going from English to Japanese, then no, not particularly.

Reply #3 - 2010 May 26, 8:00 am
Blahah Member
From: Cambridge, UK Registered: 2008-07-15 Posts: 715 Website

Whether it's a good idea depends on what your goals are for your Japanese learning. Do you just want to be able to read manga, watch TV and understand people? Do you want to speak to people? Do you want to be able to write?

Practice what you hope to achieve.

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Reply #4 - 2010 May 26, 8:33 am
wccrawford Member
From: FL US Registered: 2008-03-28 Posts: 1551

While I think it is absolutely critical to practice what you hope to achieve, you should stretch beyond that.  Achieving goals in other areas (that you care less about) will help your target areas as well.

Reply #5 - 2010 May 26, 7:21 pm
chris9687 New member
From: Japan Registered: 2009-08-11 Posts: 9

Thanks for all the replies lads. To mcjon Im not quite sure I understand exactly how to reverse the cards, i tried generating the new cards, but it seems to only be able to do one at a time.

So the consensus here then would seem to be that doing english to japanese is not as effective as japanese to english, is that right?

As to the other 2 posts, seeing as im living in Japan id like to get an all around ability in the language. I was thinking along the lines, that practicing output of japanese, ie in a flashcard format for vocabulary, would help to lessen those occasions where im stumped for a word, you know those times where you know hat you know a word and its on the tip of your tongue, but you just cant get it out!!!

Actually as a follow up question, do you guys use pre made decks and if so do you have any all around recommendation?

Once agin thanks for the quick replies smile

Reply #6 - 2010 May 26, 7:39 pm
Tobberoth Member
From: Sweden Registered: 2008-08-25 Posts: 3364

English to Japanese has lots of downsides and few upsides. It's very hard to create decent E-J cards since an English sentences can usually be rendered in many different ways in Japanese, some awesome, some good and some unnatural, and when a card you haven't seen in a few months come up, you will have a hard time rendering it like the answer side. One can say that it's just a good thing that you can render it differently and there's no reason to fail it, which is correct, but then your output isn't corrected. If you fail the card at a different rendition, you're not actually training output, you're training one-to-one translations.

The only upside is that you're training SOME form of output, but personally I don't consider it real output, so even that one upside is really half-assed. There are much better ways to train output (conversations, lang-8), as you're living in Japan this is definitely a MUCH superior way of improving your output. Being stumped for words is nothing to be scared of, it's completely natural, and going J-E will probably not help you much in this area.

Personally, I use no premade decks, for several reasons. The time you "waste" making your own decks is really just extra time studying, and you don't have to deal with information from other sources than the ones you pick, in a format you like.

Reply #7 - 2010 May 26, 7:41 pm
slivir Member
From: Japan Registered: 2009-01-26 Posts: 84

For me, EN to JP is more effective than JP to EN. Recognition is way too easy. Of course production is slower, but you can communicate surprisingly well with Japanese people with even just a little vocab and grammar knowledge. For me, at the moment (living in Japan), doing that and doing it well is more important than reading and whatnot.

Edit: I think you can get around those shortcomings that Tobb described by using hints or some kind of cue for separate grammar points. Also, you don't have to be too strict with grading yourself if you don't get it perfect so long as you understand the grammar point well enough. But hey, different horses and all that...

pps. I also think using your own decks is a good idea.

Last edited by slivir (2010 May 26, 8:16 pm)

Reply #8 - 2010 May 26, 8:01 pm
nest0r Member
Registered: 2007-10-19 Posts: 5236 Website

I think that for beginners, the kore thing as prefab foundation is pretty much perfect--between that, the Dictionaries of Japanese Grammar sentence deck, and cangy's new swanki plugin alongside subs2srs to create personal, custom decks right from the onset, they're set, no? (The latter use of swanki/subs2srs possibly making kore unnecessary except as an extra corpus beyond native media decks.)

Last edited by nest0r (2010 May 26, 8:13 pm)

Reply #9 - 2010 May 26, 8:38 pm
ta12121 Member
From: Canada Registered: 2009-06-02 Posts: 3190

Depends on what you want, if you want to be fluent in all skills, train all skills. Reverse cards help you remember kanji from memory easily.
Basically i've learned that, if you do recongition cards a lot, your reading/understanding should develop, as long as you keep an immersion environment and reading. For writing do a lot of production cards, you'll get used to it after a while. Lastly speaking, probably the hardest skill to gain fluency (in my opinion). I guess you have to start small, and use simple vocab and then build up your way to conversational level,functional,then semi-fluent then fluent.

I remember hearing somewhere that you should wait like 800 hours(filled with immersion of course and just plain listening) before actually trying to output. It's to get used to the sounds,etc.

Last edited by ta12121 (2010 May 26, 8:44 pm)

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