gfb345
Member
Registered: 2010-01-19
Posts: 255
I understand that the standard ultimate source for kanji in the 15-volume 大漢和辞典, but this source is pretty much out-of-reach for me at the moment (in more ways than one).
For the meaning of extremely rare kanji, what online resource comes closest to the 大漢和辞典? (It doesn't have to be free.)
At the moment, I'm looking for the meaning of 鬳. If anyone knows of a source that gives an actual meaning for it, please let me know. (EDICT gives pronunciations for it but no meanings.)
TIA!
kapalama
Member
Registered: 2008-03-23
Posts: 183
Isn't it fair to say that if Nelson does not have it, a Japanese person does not know it? There are plenty of characters that simply are not Japanese in the sense that a Japanese person does not know or use them, maybe.
Japanese people have trouble recognizing 完璧's second character is not wall. "Because who needs to know that it is not wall? " is how several Japanese people responded, when I asked them how come they did not know.
http://rtkwiki.koohii.com/wiki/%E9%AC%B3
and
http://kanji.koohii.com/study/kanji/39731
Just for the hell of it.
Last edited by kapalama (2010 May 13, 11:11 am)
Jarvik7
Member
From: 名古屋
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 3946
Err, that's not really a story.
I can't give any input on that specific character since it seems to not even be encoded in S-JIS, so I am unable to look it up in my EPWING dicts (nor are most other Japanese software programs able to make use of the character since Japan is slow at implementing unicode).
It seems to be a Chinese hanzi that is given some use with proper nouns in Japanese (referring to Chinese arts) though.
Last edited by Jarvik7 (2010 May 13, 11:40 am)
kapalama wrote:
Isn't it fair to say that if Nelson does not have it, a Japanese person does not know it?
I would say as a general rule that's probably true but it really depends. There are some specialized kanji that most Japanese people would not know but that people working in specific disciplines on specific things might be more familiar with.
The original question is a little odd to me because absent any context, I'm not sure what the purpose of knowing an English meaning of a very rare character is.
The 漢字源 is good, although it can be a little confusing for beginners or even intermediate students because certain aspects of the dictionary are geared towards classical Chinese and kanbun rather than modern Japanese usage. Although I suppose if you're needing a meaning for a character as rare as the OP, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Tobberoth:
I use it mainly for understanding the difference when a word can be written using several kanji, but kanjigen contains it all.
Hmm, I don't find it very useful for that; to me Kanjigen's definitions (as far as comparing characters) are hard to understand and don't always seem to reflect normal usage. My usual standard is the Koujien; my personal guideline is that if Koujien doesn't disambiguate the usage, it's not something that most Japanese people would be able to do without checking some specialized reference work, and isn't all that important.
(I find the Kanjigen invaluable for looking up pinyin readings of characters and for getting some information about their usage in classical Chinese.)
Last edited by yudantaiteki (2010 May 13, 1:02 pm)
Katsuo
M.O.D.
From: Tokyo
Registered: 2007-02-06
Posts: 887
Website
gfb345 wrote:
What kind of denshi jisho is that? Can it be used by someone who does not read Japanese?
The KanjiGen (漢字源) is a kanji dictionary aimed at Japanese people. It's widely available in paper form, and has also been included in many denshi jisho starting from about ten years ago. (Though more recently Casio and Seiko have changed to the Kangorin).
The version of the KanjiGen in older or less expensive denshi jisho usually has around 6,000 characters, whereas newer ones have around 13,000. 鬳 can only be found in the latter.
As yudantaiteki says, the dictionary is all Japanese, so reading through the etymological details of a character may be difficult. However simple information such as the stroke count, radical, etc. is easy to make out.
kapalama
Member
Registered: 2008-03-23
Posts: 183
JimmySeal wrote:
yudantaiteki wrote:
No, the Kanjigen is all Japanese. (The character doesn't seem to be in my denshi jisho...) I don't know of any resources that give meanings of very rare characters in English. I think the general assumption is that if you can't read Japanese you probably don't need to know what they mean.
Where did you encounter this character?
My kanjigen doesn't have that character either, but it does have 獻, and explains the general meaning of the left side in the etymology for that character.
For More Fun About This Charあcter:
Haplern (NTC, not KLD) and Nelson list 獻 as a variant form of RTK # 1615 献 with a listed radical of 犬. Although 南 itself does not seem to have assumed any of the apparent meaning of 鬳 (the character in question).
I wonder if any other characters that seem to be built from 南 are actually made from 鬳. I guess one way to tell would be to look for characters with 南 that read ケン，コン rather than ナン，ナ
(In my quick check, there are only two characters built with 南．楠 which read ナン, thus it is from 南, and 献立 (こんだて) which reads ケン in other usages, which means it is from 獻 and 鬳.
Last edited by kapalama (2010 May 14, 7:27 am)
