Haych
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2008-09-28
Posts: 168
Hello all,
I have some questions for all you Japanese experts out there.
1) How would you translate the sentence structure in english: "______ is done so that ______ can happen", also would this be accompanied with a comma? eg) He went down the stairs to grab his bag.
2) How would you translate "to get ; to obtain". Essentially, is there a catch-all verb for things like "Go to the store to get some milk. Go downstairs to get your bag. Go to class to get your homework."
3)How would you translate the phrase "at one time; once" and what particle would you use with it? eg) Once upon a time there was a blah blah blah.
4) How would you translate the phrase "to lose one's fascination with" or "to lose interest"? Would you use 失う or a different verb?
5) How would you translate the sentence structure "____ only occurs because ___" as in "I only know because you told me."
PS: I realize that one doesnt normally translate sentence structures, but just give me something that you think sounds natural.
Thanks!
coverup
Member
From: 神戸
Registered: 2008-05-21
Posts: 111
1) A literal translation of your example sentence would be かばんを取るために階段を下りた。 but that doesn't sound like something a Japanese person would say to me. If you are really expressing that the ends are the primary emphasis then you can use this verb+ために construction. Your example sentence would be better expressed as 階段を下りてかばんを取りに行った。 He went down the stairs and went to get his bag.
2) Again, depends on what the item is. 取る、まらう （いただく）、買う for buy (even though we say "get A from the store"), the list goes on and on.
3) 一度、一回 mean once, but "once upon a time" is 昔々（むかしむかし）. Not much of a relationship in Japanese even though the vocabulary is related in English.
4) Lose interest 興味がなくなる, 興味をなくす. Looks like you are in luck here!
5) もし（あなたが）教えてくれなかったとしたら私は何も分からないだろう。<-- This inverts your sentence to express the same sentiment - "If you hadn't told me I wouldn't know anything". I don't know that a JP person would say this.
The grand lesson you can learn from this is that there is pretty much nothing to gain from this approach to studying Japanese. I think you're trying too hard to force English constructions on Japanese. It's understandable to want to do so, but once you understand that the Japanese language is its own breed with its own way of thinking and relating to the world, you can just relax, give up, and start letting things come IN to you instead of trying to go on a wild goosechase OUT of your own volition. If you don't know how to say something it is not because you haven't figured out how to yet, it's because you haven't come in contact with enough Japanese to encounter how to say things of that nature.
I will venture a guess that you are still in the beginning to early-intermediate phases of your language acquisition; and doubtless others will chime in and say something similar to this, but I would recommend that you focus on what people are saying and writing (input) before you worry about expressing yourself. A day will come when you will just "know" that you should use A instead of B. Here you are trying to build a house without learning what the various Japanese tools do first, and the best way to learn is to watch how and when others use them.
wccrawford
Member
From: FL US
Registered: 2008-03-28
Posts: 1551
I've been thinking about this lately myself.
While I -know- that most things don't translate directly (and I'm always pleasantly surprised when something does!) I also know that if I knew some basic (wrong-sounding) words and phrases, I could express myself better when trying to talk to my language partner. If I could express the idea wrongly, she could correct it. If I can't, I have to say it in English, which derails the conversation and I never end up learning how to say it.
For instance, I've wanted to say 'almost always' quite a few times lately. Instead, I have end up having to say 'always', but that isn't actually correct and leads to confusing conversations. (Or again, switching to English.)
With enough input, I know I'll pick all these little things up eventually, but I've been seriously considering making a list of them and asking for some help, just as Haych has done.
Edit: Short form: I'd rather say it wrong than not at all!
Last edited by wccrawford (2010 April 28, 5:53 am)
Nyanda
Member
From: 豊田市
Registered: 2009-08-27
Posts: 38
wccrawford wrote:
For instance, I've wanted to say 'almost always' quite a few times lately. Instead, I have end up having to say 'always', but that isn't actually correct and leads to confusing conversations. (Or again, switching to English.)
Just because this seems like a good oppurtunity to throw this out there, when I want to find out how to say a phrase or word in Japanese that I would normally say in English, I like to just type in a few of the key words from the English phrase into www.alc.co.jp
Sometimes it's spot on and other times not so accurate, since a lot of stuff is context dependent, but it always gives me a nice starting point when I want to ask questions to Japanese friends.
http://eow.alc.co.jp/almost+always/UTF-8/?ref=sa
Last edited by Nyanda (2010 April 28, 7:34 am)
dizmox
Member
Registered: 2007-08-11
Posts: 1149
1) [objective] ために [action]
2) 持ってくる works
3) Along with what the previous poster said, ある時、ある日, etc. work in the right context
4) [object]に飽きる
5) [condition]からこそ[result]
Last edited by dizmox (2010 April 28, 5:36 pm)
Thanks!
（大笑）
