I know that the different ways of saying "I" or "You" have actual meanings, like:
Watashi - "private"
Boku - "servant"
Sesshha - "bumbler"
Kimi - "l__d"
Omae - "(honorable) front" or "the (honorable) person in front of me"
Onore - "(honorable) oneself" (though the opposite is implied either way)
Kisama - "extremely esteemed person" (though the exact opposite meaning is implied)
Otaku - "your (honorable) house" (though such now normally carries a negative meaning)
I wonder...
What does "ore" and "anata" mean?
No, I AM NOT asking about the right ways to use these pronouns, but rather their meanings.
P.S. The "honorable" is put in parentheses, since I think the "o" in front of the pronouns are the "honorable" "o"s. Of course, I am not even an intermediate student of Nipponese, so I am most likely wrong.
Jarvik7
Member
From: 名古屋
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 3946
@Jimmyseal: あなた only means "over there" when written as 彼方. 貴方 could be considered another kosoado word though..（こなた・そなた・あなた・どなた）
LazyNomad wrote:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E4%BF%BA
おれ - 俺 - Originally a second person pronoun. Gradually changed into a first person pronoun.
I can find no evidence of that. Wiktionary is full of mistakes though so I wouldn't trust it. The only gradual change that happened is that it's no longer used by women (normally).
Here are some somewhat uncommon ones I came across playing Zelda yesterday: 妾(わらわ)、私(あたい), both being feminine versions of "I".
Last edited by Jarvik7 (2010 March 24, 12:33 am)
liosama
Member
From: sydney
Registered: 2008-03-02
Posts: 896
Perhaps someone could correct me, but わたし is a Japanese word. It was only by chance that the kanji 私was used to denote it (in fact a different kanji was used for a while right? Jarv or Aijin/Magamo could clear that up, but I think it was the original chinese 我. So anyway, connotations of private come about from the Chinese character, 私's original meaning of private, pronounced 「シ」.
Anyway if learning the meanings of pronouns if for your own interest then so be it, but if you think learning the meanings of pronouns will help you understand their connotations, nuance, etc I don't think it will be of much help to you. It'd be interesting, but not of much help to your language ability.
Jarvik7
Member
From: 名古屋
Registered: 2007-03-05
Posts: 3946
liosama wrote:
Perhaps someone could correct me, but わたし is a Japanese word. It was only by chance that the kanji 私was used to denote it (in fact a different kanji was used for a while right? Jarv or Aijin/Magamo could clear that up, but I think it was the original chinese 我. So anyway, connotations of private come about from the Chinese character, 私's original meaning of private, pronounced 「シ」.
私 is the only kanji I (or my dictionaries) know for わたし, but since it's a 和語 one could have logically given it any kanji you wanted (as long as the kanji means I) in ye olde days. Wago -> kanji assignments were pretty half-ass, which is why it's 掌 not 手の平 and 試みる, not 心見る. It's also why あげる can have five+ kanji depending on the nuance.
A better definition of 私 is self, not I or private. If you think of it as self then 私立大学 means self-established university, aka a private university, while still making sense as a first person pronoun. Unfortunately there are a ton of other kanji with similar meanings so heisig had to give it the name he did.
Last edited by Jarvik7 (2010 March 24, 8:49 am)
The reason that 私 is used as the kanji is that originally (as Jarvik7) indicates, the word わたくし was not a personal pronoun, it was a word meaning "private". The personal pronoun meaning developed later. (liosama: the kanji was assigned to the word because it meant private, not the other way around.)
The Koujien does indicate that 俺 was once used as a second-person pronoun as well as a first-person, but it doesn't say that the second-person meaning was first...I suppose, though, that may be the case since the quotations are for the second-person pronoun are from the Kojiki and the Makura no Soshi.
我 has always been われ, not わたし.
Last edited by yudantaiteki (2010 March 24, 8:34 am)
Much obliged, everyone, especially since none of the comments were actually painful to read. (I think you can guess why I was scared.)
Either way, I will wait for a few more before I get to the next (more embarrassing!) question.
JimmySeal wrote:
Dankoochoo wrote:
Kimi - "l__d"
Why did you censor "lord?"
I grew up with "Jesus" and "Lord" being synonymous. Although "Lord" is not strictly a religious term, I do not really feel right writing "Lord" without reference to Jesus.
