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Nukemarine's Suggested Guide for Beginners
Index » The Japanese language
callmedodge wrote:
Maybe I`ve just hit a slump. Maybe I`m just fed up trying to review the same words over and over.. I`m not sure.
I really really appreciate all the work that everyone has done creating decks but am I the only one who feels the example sentences for the Core2000 are the least inventive things ever? Not only that but occasionally contain several words that are either not covered at all or at least not by that section, defeating the purpose of having the sentence there.
Maybe it`s just me but I don`t see the point in having a sentence to give context if you can`t understand what is trying to be said because certain words have yet to be covered.
Nonetheless appreciate of what people have done, it`s just something that`s really been annoying me lately and is a major slash to my motivation.
The sentences are simple and for the most part that's on purpose. If you think you need more complexity, there is the "2001.Kanji.Odyssey" spreadsheets with much more complex sentences (verbage wise, not grammar), but unfortunately you'll lose audio. In addition it's not a free resource in that we normally request proof of ownership before giving links to the spreadsheet. Although I'd wager a public anki deck exists out there.
Still, the current deck should be giving you enough to get the desired answer (Japanese word both written and pronounced). You should have lots of context: the English word, the cloze deleted Japanese sentence and the photo on top of any notes you added (I added a field called "Caution" where I put extra notes for context) to remove any ambiguity.
Yes, since I resorted based on the vocabulary word and not the sentence, the example sentences are much more complicated vocabulary wise early on. That should not be too important since the English sentence is there for you to lean on until it's not necessary when your vocabulary and grammar range increases. Even then, I'll admit it's not easy since the sorted vocabulary puts similar words right by each other, though that might be a strong point helping you distiguish similar words early on.
I'll stress it again, this deck is about the vocabulary words and not the sentences.
I understand what you`re saying and unfortunately for me, I don`t have the option to add audio as I do most of my Anki in work (it`s ok, I`m allowed). My problem is that some sentences have words that are unneccesary.
Take 「駅に友人の見送りに行きました。」which is the example sentence for 見送る. I understand what 見送る means and I would like to use this sentence to see it in some context and I see the word 友人 which I`ve never seen or heard before in my life. I check it`s meaning, check to see if it`s in the Core 2000 by itself, and it`s not. Why not just use the far more commonly used 友達. Yes, it`s actually fairly easy to see the meaning in 友人 but kanji doesn`t always work that way and as for the reading? Forget it. It`s this type of thing that slowly eats into my motivation.
I don`t mean to come across angry and bitchy, it`s been a rough day.
Edit: This happens every few cards and causes a whole lot of editing everytime I want to add new cards and have a chance of knowing what`s going on, which subsequently eats into time I could actually spend being productive.
Last edited by callmedodge (2012 June 27, 4:38 am)
There are a few solutions here:
1. Ignore the word you don't know. I recommend ignoring as you'll probably learn it later, then the sentence makes sense.
2. Replace the word you don't know. If you're replacing it, you can use a word you know or just copy in the English version of the word from the sample sentence.
3. Add definitions to words you don't know to the card. I used to do this, but I made the mistake of failing the card if I failed that word also. This created cards where there could be two or three points of failure. Now, this is very important to do when you start mining sentences via subs2srs or other methods.
4. Activate a card that's for the word you don't know. This can cause problems as the new card's sentence could also have new words. This creates a recursive system, but it does work as it's something I tried back when I was worried about understanding the entire sentence
5. (a version of 3) Duplicate the card to test the new word (replace the parts of the cards that refer to the old vocab word). This works quite well in Core 2k/6k for words that don't have their own cards (quite a few are like this).
This all can be mitigated if you instead use a deck that sorts the sentences and not the vocab words. This limited the amount of new words per new sentence. The original deck I had posted did this, but I opted to replace it with sorted vocabulary instead. However, I included optimized sentence sorting index so you can export the deck as .csv, sort by optimized sentences index, delete unstudied cards in Anki, then re-import the sorted spreadsheet. Again, this assumes that you need to know all the words in the example sentence.
I understand there's no one perfect way for everyone, so I'm giving you lots of options to choose from. However, I'll still recommend the method as outline in the first post as the optimal one until further evidence presents itself (by further evidence I mean user feedback).
I`ve been doing 2 and 4 and they`ve been working alright. I guess it`s the only way out of it. Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I can`t just ignore the word but that`s my problem.
Sorry about yesterday, dunno what was wrong with me. (I`m going with uncomfortable workplace + JLPT stress).
Thanks for the advice!
Ok, I hate to do this, but I too am having problems merging the media files into the deck.
Here's what I did:
-Downloaded the media files from the first post.
-Extracted the files/whole folder into the location that Anki stores the deck information
-Looked for the "Core 2k/ 6k" deck exactly as posted in this topic, did a search, and could not find it.
-Downloaded the "Core 2000 and Core 6000 Vocabuary and Sentences" deck instead with Uploader labeled as "None". Must not have been the right one as the deck didn't sync with the audio.
-Downloaded the "Core 2k/6k Optimized Deck" with and Uploader called "none", again, deck would not snyc with the files.
Ok, either I'm searching for the wrong deck, the deck classification has changed, or the deck is no longer up on the server. I'm looking and just cannot find this deck, and I've searched via File-Download-Shared Deck in addition to the hotkey in the intro menu.
Either that, or I have the right deck(and the info in this topic is misleading which I doubt), and I have no idea on how to sync the files.
The "Core 2k/6k Optimized Deck" should be the right one. I assume your deck is saved in your "My Folders" section of Windows. So there should be a "Core 2k/6k Optimized Deck.media" unless you set Anki to use dropbox or other online sync'ing tool.
This is starting to be more for the Anki google discussion group, though I'll try to add a "frequent problems" section on the front page.
More like My Documents/Anki.
The files are named by the default I downloaded them has. Should I change the folder names to match the deck name with the .media like you posted? That seems like it's what's causing it not to link. I have my settings in Media under Preferences set to "keep next to deck". It's not snyced online.
And thanks. I think a mini section on troubleshooting would be great. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something simple here that is causing me problems.
PkmnTrainerAbram wrote:
Should I change the folder names to match the deck name with the .media like you posted?
Why don't you actually try it and see what happens? You know, you're allowed to change it back if it doesn't work.
Nukemarine wrote:
callmedodge wrote:
Maybe I`ve just hit a slump. Maybe I`m just fed up trying to review the same words over and over.. I`m not sure.
I really really appreciate all the work that everyone has done creating decks but am I the only one who feels the example sentences for the Core2000 are the least inventive things ever? Not only that but occasionally contain several words that are either not covered at all or at least not by that section, defeating the purpose of having the sentence there.
Maybe it`s just me but I don`t see the point in having a sentence to give context if you can`t understand what is trying to be said because certain words have yet to be covered.
Nonetheless appreciate of what people have done, it`s just something that`s really been annoying me lately and is a major slash to my motivation.The sentences are simple and for the most part that's on purpose. If you think you need more complexity, there is the "2001.Kanji.Odyssey" spreadsheets with much more complex sentences (verbage wise, not grammar), but unfortunately you'll lose audio. In addition it's not a free resource in that we normally request proof of ownership before giving links to the spreadsheet. Although I'd wager a public anki deck exists out there.
Still, the current deck should be giving you enough to get the desired answer (Japanese word both written and pronounced). You should have lots of context: the English word, the cloze deleted Japanese sentence and the photo on top of any notes you added (I added a field called "Caution" where I put extra notes for context) to remove any ambiguity.
Yes, since I resorted based on the vocabulary word and not the sentence, the example sentences are much more complicated vocabulary wise early on. That should not be too important since the English sentence is there for you to lean on until it's not necessary when your vocabulary and grammar range increases. Even then, I'll admit it's not easy since the sorted vocabulary puts similar words right by each other, though that might be a strong point helping you distiguish similar words early on.
I'll stress it again, this deck is about the vocabulary words and not the sentences.
I was looking at you new deck and your Tae Kim deck and they look great, but i just have one concern. Why is there so much english used in both of them? I mean when i learn Japanese i try and avoid english as much as possible, but on these cards its right there infront of your face before you can ever attempt to think in Japanese?
Thanks
I just ordered the KO2001 Ebook from Coscom and was wondering how I go about getting a access to the spreadsheet/Anki deck or is the deck linked to in the reviewing the kanji wiki adequate?
Thanks.
The deck on the wiki has all the sentences and audio. The sentences are scraped from the disc/ebook, so they are all images. So yes, it is adequate, unless you want to search for text in the sentences, which you won't be able to do.
At least with the images you don't have to worry about fonts or displaying furigana, and you get the main word(s) highlighted in blue for you, which I don't think the other decks do (someone correct me if I'm wrong). In my case, when I did (and continue to review) KO, I tested only for the highlighted words, so having them in blue was a necessity for me.
Thanks, Netsplitter. Is there a difference in the order of the sentences in the decks?
It looks like there's another deck on there that's sorted by frequency of kanji within KO itself. I guess it's up to you if you want to use it.
Are you also doing the optimized Core6K? Since it's sorted by KO order, it's probably best if you keep the KO deck in its original order as well so you can study them side-by-side. You also have the advantage of being able to study from the ebook in order (i.e., do one or more groups at a time). I imagine it'd be a hassle to look ahead in the deck to see what kanji are coming up and finding them in the book to study them out of order.
KO is difficult at first, but I promise it gets easier...after 500 sentences.
I'd be interested in seeing the kind of progress someone makes by doing KO and Core6k alongside each other.
The Japanese plugin does that. Have a look at this post and there's also this to look at if you're using an iOS device. I think ankidroid has it as an option in its menus somewhere, I forget.
It's a bit of a nuisance, I know, but a lot of the cruft isn't getting improved because no one wants to fix things in anki when anki2 is on its way (at least, that's my excuse for not contributing).
I'm almost done with Heisig 1. I'm at about 1900 right now and average about 44 a day. I'm thinking of going through K02001, Core6k, and either Tae's Grammar guide or understanding basic Japanese Grammar, and possibly All About Particles at the same time once I'm done. I'm not sure if that is too much or not. I own both the Understanding Basic Japanese Grammar book and All About Particles so I feel a little compelled to do them. Is it better to focus on 1 or 2 decks at a time? If so, which ones would be best.
Also, I just noticed I had the same problem as Hyperborea regarding the kanji not being displayed in the question of the Core6k deck.
I followed these instructions on my Windows machine:
Here's how you can fix this
1. Settings>Plugins>Open Plugins Folder
2. Open the 'japanese' directory
3. Open 'furigana.py' in a text editor.
4. Search for 'reading_in_question' and change the 1 to a 2. You can also set it to 3 to show the kanji and have the reading in a tooltip.
However, when I searched for 'reading_in_question' it comes up 3 times. I changed it in all three places to 2 and nothing changed in the deck even after closing and restarting anki. I also tried changing it to 3 and nothing changed. I renamed the furigana.py file to see what would happen an error. Am I supposed to only change one of the reading_in_questions to 2 or 3 or all of them?
Thanks.
Last edited by sodajerk (2012 July 08, 10:24 pm)
Thanks, Hyperborea.
That did it for me. For some reason I had to reinstall the Japanese plugin, but then after editing it like you said, it works fine. I guess I'll have to modify Anki to get the deck to work on my iphone and ipad. I just requested to participate in the Anki 2.0 beta mobile beta for iOS. Does anyone know if it works by default with that or if I'll have to change something?
Nukemarine, or anyone else,
I saw that Nukemarine posted a spreadsheet of onyomi's using the movie method at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … =en#gid=2.
I was wondering if it would be wise to try and go through that before doing core 6k or K02001. Is there a better way of doing things? Is it worth doing it in addition to core 6k and k02001 or should I just skip it altogether?
I'm a bit late, but thank you for the update Nukemarine. I've been waiting for it for a long time.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but I am a completely new at sentence decks/anki,etc. I noticed that your decks and spreadsheets are based on books and other original sources (RTK, 2k1KO) etc. Do I need those original sources to study to make this method work? Or will only the spreadsheets and decks suffice?
The RTK book lists the primitives as they are introduced, and each primitive is given a name and I think an explanation. My understanding is that the agreement with the publisher and this site (RevTK) was that RevTK (the Study portion) is legal as long as the primitives or Heisig's stories aren't reproduced. Heisig gives you stories of his own for the first 500, but a lot of them aren't very good, and most people inluded the primitives in their own stories anyway. The book does give you a convenient break-down of the primives and stroke order, though, but you can find that online easily. So you'll miss out on those three things, but I think you can get away with not owning the book. It's not like it's expensive though.
I don't believe Nukemarine's guide suggests using 2k1KO itself, but instead to use the order of the kanji that appear in it to do RTK. That work has already been done for you as well. (I personally think KO is good, perhaps even alongside Core6k, so I wouldn't discourage its use. If you want to use 2k1KO, then you don't exactly "need" the books/CD, but you should buy it anyway in order to not be a thieving scumbag.)
The other two resources I see listed are Tae Kim's grammar guide and the Core6K, which are both freely available already.
Last edited by netsplitter (2012 August 04, 6:19 am)
The first chapter of RTK is free at http://nirc.nanzan-u.ac.jp/publications … sample.pdf . You can decide if you need the rest after that.
Thanks, I probably won't need it because I have knowledge of Chinese.
@nukemarine Is there a particular reason why your Optimized Core2k/6k deck has only 5999 facts?
Edit: Or anyone else who knows...
Last edited by frony0 (2012 August 10, 9:22 am)
To answer my own question, it seems there is one piece of vocab missing from the shared deck, or so I found when I compared the deck with kore.txt from here. I obviously have no optimized indexes, but the majority of the card is as follows:
Code:
sqlite> SELECT * FROM c2 WHERE Core_Index = "6000";
Vocabulary_Kanji = 生ずる
Vocabulary_Furigana = 生[しょう]ずる
Vocabulary_Kana = しょうずる
Vocabulary_English = arise, occur
Vocabulary_Audio = [sound:41b786da0c235b88ecb3cc7e97b68a7d.mp3]
Vocabulary_Pos = Verb
Caution =
Expression = 想定外の問題が<b>生じた</b>の。
Reading = 想定外[そうてい がい]の 問題[もんだい]が <b>生[しょう]じた</b> の。
Sentence_Kana = そうてい がい の もんだい が <b>しょうじた </b>の。
Sentence_English = An unexpected problem arose.
Sentence_Clozed = 想定外[そうてい がい]の 問題[もんだい]が<b>（ ）</b> の。
Sentence_Audio = [sound:31a25150179f3c257fda2ed74a6a26a5.mp3]
Sentence_Image =
Notes = Core 6000 Step 12 - 500b
Core_Index = 6000
Optimized_VocIndex = N/A
Optimized_SentIndex = N/AEDIT: Sorry about the screen overlap, if that's not just my browser.
Last edited by frony0 (2012 August 10, 11:34 am)
UPDATE: Turns out the optimized indexes were missing too (so easy to find). Someone must have just deleted the fact by accident before uploading.
Code:
Optimized_VocIndex = 4444 Optimized_SentIndex = 3585
EDIT: Anyone with a caution is welcome to suggest one...
Last edited by frony0 (2012 August 11, 5:17 am)