skycountry ftw.

Becoming one with everything and escaping the cycle is equivalent to non-existance in my interpretation (which is why I said essentially), but I'm not enlightened of course

I did mention that the western paradise is temporary, but I didn't see the need to go into more detail. From what I've studied of Japanese buddhism, you achieve nirvana directly from the pure-land automatically, without having to return to being a human. That is the whole point of populist Buddhism in Japan. Just by having faith in Amidha you can achieve nirvana without actually having to be an upstanding lifeform. You just have to chill out with Amidha in the pureland for a few millenia first.

Yeah there are a bunch of heavens (and hells), but they are the home of vain gods that aren't worshipped and just like to have orgies and whatever amongst themselves. It's not what people think of when they say "my grandmother in heaven", unless grandma is having an orgy with zeus. In any case the heavens receive virtually no attention in Japanese populist Buddhist literature (although the hells do get a lot of attention).

I have no doubt that you know more about Buddhism than I, but I get the impression that your focus is on continental and/or non-populist belief (whereas my focus was on populist Japanese belief, through the study of noh & setsuwa).

Last edited by Jarvik7 (2010 January 31, 7:40 am)

I'm sorry everyone. It was a stupid question I just had a lot of trouble finding out the cultural meaning behind it. I don't know a lot about religious culture. Actually, I hesitated in asking because I was afraid it'd make me look uninformed..

That's why I love this forum, somebody somewhere will know what you're talking about (and then some).

Thanks everyone.

Last edited by atylmo (2010 January 31, 8:23 am)

あの世 is a religiously neutral word for the world of the dead and similar ideas. 天国 is also neutral, though it's less related to Buddhism and Shinto in my mind. I think Christians in Japan use 天, 天の王国, or 天国 for short for the place where Jesus and/or good guys live in and 楽園 for the promised paradise thing, though I could be totally wrong on this one. I don't know if 天国 has to do with Christianity in the etymological sense, but probably so and most likely it only means the Christian heaven or something if used as a technical/religious term. That said, to ordinary Japanese people, it's the other side of 三途の川 (Sanzu River), which I don't think Christians' Bible mentions.

As for absorbing ideas from various cultures/religions, it's not a Western vs. Asian thing, I guess. In fact, Christians in Japan are also notorious for refusing ideas of other religions and behaving as if other religions are evil and archenemies. I think this is due to the fact that stupids and extreme guys are always vocal, though. Anyway, it's kind of true that some people say it doesn't seem Christians in Japan respect other religions.

The Japanese word for atheism is 無神論. Your average Japanese adult person doesn't know what it means but can kind of understand its rough meaning because of kanji. The Japanese word for agnosticism is 不可知論. I bet 99% of Japanese people don't know what it means.

I often hear Westerners say the Japanese are atheists or agnostics. But it's more like your average Japanese person respects all major religions and thinks all gods and stuff are equally good and sort of divine. If he is asked whether he believes in some kind of deities, most likely his answer is "I don't know." But it doesn't mean he only believes science or claims that it's impossible to prove the existence of God. It's just he thinks it's absurd to believe that there is one unique absolutely bona fide deity and that others are all bogus. Of course there are many religious Japanese people. But if you pick a random guy on the street, most likely he's like that.

So in this sense, arguing whether 天国 is closer to the Christian heaven is a little exotic.

Last edited by magamo (2010 January 31, 10:53 am)