Tonality in Japan

Index » The Japanese language

  • 1
 
Siibillam Member
From: England Registered: 2009-11-27 Posts: 16 Website

I often hear, or read bits of dialogue that are apparently gender specific, so to speak. Not like the use of "boku" or anything, but like the way, especially among friends and in the low degree, the tonality and verb endings kind of imply gender and stuff. I had a note in Japanese which my friend told me was written in a "very girly way".

Are there any "rules" of any sort to define them, or is it just a case of listening more and getting used to what who says what in what way?

Tobberoth Member
From: Sweden Registered: 2008-08-25 Posts: 3364

There is quite a lot of differences between male and female speech in Japanese so it's hard to give any direct rules.

First there are the "femaleish" stuff like かしら, あら and わ. But there's also a bit more subtle stuff. For example, not using だ after nouns and na-adjectives. Such as "彼は変よ". It's also considered feminine to speak more formal than is considered "usual" in a situation. Also, Japanese people might find the use of わたし a bit feminine, even though it's usually called neutral.

Of course, it depends on where in Japan you are as well.

Tzadeck Member
From: Kinki Registered: 2009-02-21 Posts: 2484

I'm pretty sure this thread should be renamed to be about gender in Japanese.

Advertising (register and sign in to hide this)
JapanesePod101 Sponsor
 
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

If you were told that your message was written in a girly manner, the most likely culprits are two things tobberoth mentioned -- either language that was too polite, or using よ without だ after a noun (or na-adjective).  But if you post your note we might be able to tell you what she thought was feminine about it.

In contemporary Japanese there are very few specifically "feminine" or "masculine" words (the things like かしら and the feminine わ are becoming less often used); the typical ways in which language is "feminine" is through vocal intonation and avoidance of certain patterns or words that are felt to be too blunt/masculine (e.g. sentence-ending だろう and だ, the 行こう type of conjugation, etc.)  This certainly does not mean that you will never hear women use these expressions, just that if you had to say what "average" female speech is, it would be less likely to have those features.

kazelee Rater Mode
From: ohlrite Registered: 2008-06-18 Posts: 2132 Website

Tobberoth wrote:

TFor example, not using だ after nouns and na-adjectives. Such as "彼は変よ".

Yeah, a chick on skype busted me for that one. I can't say I didn't have it coming, though. I tease her pretty much all the time. smile

thecite Member
From: Adelaide Registered: 2009-02-05 Posts: 781

Just as an interesting point, I hear 僕 used by females in songs all the time. I'm not saying that means you're going to hear it in normal conversation, but it's an interesting point. I even heard a female use 俺 in a drama once, but she was suffering from multiple personality syndrome tongue

Also, I hear guys use わ all the time in TV shows, it's barely a female only thing now.

Last edited by thecite (2010 January 29, 8:30 pm)

yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

There are two different sentence-ending わ particles.  One has falling intonation and is used by both men and women (e.g. うまいわ。分かるわ。任せるわ。駄目だわ。)  The other has a different, rising, intonation and is feminine (e.g. 素敵だわ!分かるわよ。)  Only the feminine one occurs before よ.  I have personally never known a Japanese woman of any age in real life who used the feminine わ with any regularity; this is just my personal experience, but native speakers have agreed with me that it's not as common as it used to be.

(I have suspected before that ぼく is used in songs a lot by women because it is only two syllables and fits the meter better, but this is just a guess.  I have never heard a grown woman in real life use 僕.)

Last edited by yudantaiteki (2010 January 29, 8:38 pm)

mezbup Member
From: sausage lip Registered: 2008-09-18 Posts: 1681 Website

yudantaiteki wrote:

(I have suspected before that ぼく is used in songs a lot by women because it is only two syllables and fits the meter better, but this is just a guess.  I have never heard a grown woman in real life use 僕.)

I realised this aswell. Listen to any song where a girl says 僕 and try and fit 私 in there. It just can't work like 2 syllables does. Again same thing for 君 対 あなた though that isn't so odd, just saying.

@Siibillam: Can we see the note??

Siibillam Member
From: England Registered: 2009-11-27 Posts: 16 Website

I guess it's a lot of practice and listening, being corrected and all that. It wasn't my note, by the way, it was a note a girl gave to me, which I had him translate because I wasn't entirely sure

He said this about it though:
" watashi is how girl would perfer themself
  and how she say it, she didn't just say anata wa suki da
she said it really formal and refined "

Last edited by Siibillam (2010 January 29, 9:13 pm)

Reply #10 - 2010 January 29, 9:50 pm
yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

The watashi/boku/ore issue is very difficult for males (even native Japanese have trouble with this sometimes); I've gotten completely contradictory answers from different native speakers on which one should be used when.  Some people do feel like "watashi", particularly when used in non-formal situations, is feminine.  But it's confusing because no matter which one you pick to use, someone can say something bad about it.  Watashi is feminine/too polite, boku is childish, and ore is too rough.

Reply #11 - 2010 January 30, 9:32 am
vix86 Member
From: Tokyo Registered: 2010-01-19 Posts: 1469

We actually sort of covered this topic somewhat in my Social linguistic class this semester, but we not only talked about what word choice is picked but also why women/men choose what words to use in certain contexts. What I walked away from the class was that Women (in Japan especially, but in any society really) will tend to use more formal, highly polite language when dealing with people and even friends. The reason is that many (scholars) think that by doing so it will tend to elevate the woman higher in social situations somewhat and either put them on equal footing with men, or higher. ie: If a girl walks around spouting 俺/僕 all the time it makes her sound masculine and lowers her face. This is why わたし・わたくし is used by many women while men use 俺・僕.
Now the high pitch, nasally sound is a completely different issue that was spawned from the "Cute" culture.

Javizy Member
From: England Registered: 2007-02-16 Posts: 770

の at the end of a sentence generally sounds pretty feminine, but you can get away with it if you want to sound a bit more gentle like 「どうしたの?」. Adding particles like よ and ね, however, is unequivocally girly 「素敵なのよね」. The only guy I've heard use this sort of sentence ending was gay, and the kind of gay who makes a point about being gay, so I'd watch out for that one. I wouldn't worry too much though, this sort of thing is surprisingly easy to pick up with enough exposure.

yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

の at the end of a question is neutral, at the end of a statement is feminine.

thistime Member
Registered: 2008-11-04 Posts: 223

よandね are used all the time by men.

Last edited by thistime (2010 February 01, 6:05 pm)

yudantaiteki Member
Registered: 2009-10-03 Posts: 3619

I think he meant adding よ or ね to the の sentence-ending particle, which definitely is gentle/feminine.

  • 1